I started to put on some ground foam with scenic cement and a spray bottle but it made lots of little spots of un scenicked areas, they look like little craters.
Ive heard stuff about white glue, soap, and water solutions. What do you guys use that you like the best? Thanks for the input, bnsf97
Your initial base coat of ground foam can be applied directly on the wet paint (earth colored) or if already painted, brush on slightly thinned white glue and sprinkle on the ground foam. For second application, grasses weeds bushes etc, I use alcohol/water w/ drop of detergent applied with spray then either dribble on the scenery cement or spray. I believe your trouble is w/ the spraying of the glue. Many spray bottles will mist thinned solution like water but spit and drip with glue. The trick is find a quality sprayer w/ an adjustable nozzle to get the pattern needed. Just like wetting ballast, you need to let the spray rain down on the work not blast at it. Many times, I only will apply the matte medium or scenery cement w/ a glue bottle. It’s a lot of trial and error and finding what works best for you and your type of scenery.
Bob K.
Diluted matt medium
Proportions not critical. about 2 parts mm to 8 water to 1 alcohol.
(Paint base first and let dry of course) Wet surface throughly and evenly with mm, sprinkle on foam and mist gently with 70% isopropyl alcohol.
If you use too much or spray a stream directly at the foam, some of it will slide down the slope. Mist is the key word here. After it is dry you can touch it up or add a second layer. I like to over mist everywhere (after drying) with a second coating of mm and add a touch of lighter fine foam for highlights.
Some people apply the foam to the base paint when it is still wet. This probably works too but I’ve not tried because of the order in which I build.
I hear that white glue works too.
Oops, it looks like “Bob beat me to the post”. Everything he said is good advice.
Good luck and keep trying. You’ll get it.
I eventually threw away the spray bottle for the same reason, splotchty application that got spots of cement all over the place, plus the crater-like appearance that you described on my road.
What I do successfully is apply a matching color paint first, then apply the fine ground foam while the paint is wet. Then, once the paint dries, I add the coarse ground foam and use diluted matte medium to hold it all in place. To dilute the matte medium, I add two parts water to one part matte medium, plus a few drops of liquid detergent. I apply the matte medium with a large serving spoon by pouring the matte medium solution directly on the ground foam. It all dries clear and firm. Before applying the matte medium, I spray “wet water”, a mix of water and a few drops of liquid detergent, to wet the ground foam and allow the matte medium to flow evenly without disturbing the ground foam. Without spraying the wet water first, the ground foam will move around when the matte medium is applied.
Lastly, clean the serving spoon and remove the matte medium before it dries and your wife kills you. To clean off matte medium, wa***he spoon in very warm, soapy water. Also, use rubber gloves when working with matte medium. Unlike white glue, matte medium sticks to the skin and, once dried, comes off only in ways that you don’t want to hear about.
You must wet the area first with the glue, then sprinkle on the ground foam. You could let that dry over the next two hours, or so, and then fill in the lighter spots WITH A DIFFERENT WEIGHT and COLOUR of ground foam, at which point you would over spray to bind it in place. You may have to add a third layer to make it look good.
If your WS product is not working, it could be defective (how is anyone’s guess). Mix up a batch of yellow carpenter’s glue, or use white glue, in a ratio of 1 part glue to three parts water, add two or three drops of dish detergent, and shake it gently to mix it in your spritz bottle. Us that to fix your ground foam in place.
I tried the WS scenic cement with the WS sprayer and bottle. It was an absolute disaster. I immediately went back to a 50/50 mix of white glue and water. It didn’t matter what I did with the WS cement, it just wouldn’t go on right and then it wouldn’t hold the scenery in place well. I could peel off whole patches of it as easily as picking sheets of paper. I’ll never use it again. The sprayer however, works fine with my glue mix.
I don’t have that much success with the WS sprayer, I usually substitute a garden-mister spray onto the bottle, and it works much better. I wet the base with the diluted cement after it has been painted and dried, use a flour-sifter to sift on the initial scenery coat, then mist it with water and 3 drops of detergent added to make the water more ‘wet.’ Let set for a couple of hours, then repeat the process with coarser ground foam for bushes, and after that’s on and misted, immediately sift fine foam onto the bushes lightly to give the impression of leaves, lightly mist with WS and then the ‘wet’ water. I usually loosely pre-mix my foam colors to prevent solid areas of one color.
I’ve had pretty good success with the WS Scenic Cement, but in actuality, using diluted Elmer’s white or yellow glue (about 60% water, 40% glue) gets the job done just as well and is a lot less expensive. However, I’ve found that the WS is perfect for ballasting, as it seems to be more ‘flexible’ when dry.
But I really don’t recommend the WS sprayer–as you said, it tends to glop all over the place.
Tom
Thanks alot guys, ill definately try that. Ill post some pics when im done! thanks again, bnsf97
I use the same technique for ground foam I use for ballasting. Soak the ground foam with straight alcohol (rubbing, not the drinking kind!) and then dribble on the diluted glue (white glue with water and a drop of detergent) using an old contact lens solution bottle with a dropper. You can flood a pretty big area with glue but still control it, unlike with a sprayer. The alcohol will allow the glue to soak in without disturbing the ground foam. I stopped using sprayers a long time ago… They just don’t offer the control that dropper bottles do.
If you intend to spray the glue on, you will need to pre-wet the foam (or whatever powdered scenery material you are using) with a wetting agent – plain water with several drops of dish detergent added, or my favorite – rubbing alcohol.
You can get a large bottle of 70 percent isopropyl alcohol at the store in the medications section for less than a $1. I keep several bottles on hand for scenery work.
Some people find using the alcohol straight bothers them … in that case, thin it 50-50 with plain water and add a couple drops of dish detergent to the mix.
I like the alcohol because it’s a fantastic wetting agent, going straight in without disturbing the dry foam, plaster-tempera powder, or ballast. You can see this demonstrated in my free video clip that goes with the Realistic Layouts special issue currently available from Kalmbach.
I don’t like alcohol because of fire possibilities, smell, it is a solvent that can eat things, etc… I know, I am wierd LOL.
I do like one teaspoon of dishsoap, one quart [litre] of water, and about one cup or 250ml of white glue.
I mix it by shaking the bottle then I pour what I need into old glue bottles and use it as I need it.
It works for me.
Bob K.
Bob,
I have tried several spray bottles and have not been able to find one that works the way I want it to. The little ones I found just spit and are terrible to use. What kind do you use and where do you purchase them? I am ready to start on scenry again but need a good spray bottle before I can even think about starting.
Thanks in advance,
George
George,
Most of the quality bottles used lately were donated by a member that purchased them from a wholesale custodial supply. In the past, I have used Tilex, Lysol bathroom cleaner etc. Any of the decent bottles with the adjustable(tapered screw head) have worked. Once you find a good one always rinse and clear of glue. Thinning of the glue/ matte medium helps. If you still can’t get the results wanted from a spray bottle, you will have to dribble it on.
Bob K.
Thanks very much Bob. I have a friend here that owns a custodial service in town, I think I will stop by for coffee and a visit in the morning. Maybe he can help me out.
Have a great 4th of July holiday.
George