Thanks all in advance for answering this! I’m almost to the point of putting down ground cover, and was wondering the best way to attach soil, ground foam, cinders and the like to plaster cloth, sculptamold, and just plain old bare (painted) plywood?
I’ve read elsewhere that plain glue brushed on will work, with ground cover then applied to it, and have read in another of my posts here that ground cover should be applied, then soaked with wet water, then glue applied. This I’m talking about ground foam, actual dirt, and cinders. So what method is recommended and will work best for applying to these materials?
Finally, is full strength glue recommended, or diluted glue and water? Thanks again for any help all…!
You are going to get a lot of answers to your questions. I have had the most success with painting the area to be covered first with full strength white glue and then adding my base layer of ground cover (dirt, foam, etc). After this dries I sprinkle on my next layer and soak it with 50:50 isopropyl alcohol:water. I then dribble on a mixture of glue:water (1:5) to soak well. After this dries I can add additional layers following the same procedure. This is my method and others will give you theirs. Good luck and have fun.
I’ve used both methods, and for me, the determining factor was the scenic base. If it was a slope or near vertical cliff, I brushed on full strength white glue. To apply the ground cover, I used a 3x5" index card, folded in half lengthwise. Pour some ground cover into the “V”" of the index card and blow the ground cover into place. When dried, this give the base some “tooth” to hold subsequent applications of ground cover in place, instead of sliding down the slope.
For applying ground cover on flat (or nearly flat), I sprinkle on the ground cover, mist with wet water (water with dish soap added) or rubbing alcohol until the area is wet. Then apply diluted white glue (I use a 60:40 (water:glue) ratio. Soak the area with the diluted glue until it soaks through the ground cover.
And, Joe is right; you WILL get a lot of different answers, based on what works for them. Try some of the different suggestions and find out what works for you.
what are you applying it too? Plywood, foam? I have a plywood base and I first used some brown-tan paint and they put my ground foam down on the at first.
I use both. For most scenery, I apply a couple layers of dirt or sand to hide the plaster completely except where I’ve modeled rock faces. Each of these is added over a brush coat of 50:50 diluted white glue. I then add grass and basic ground cover over yet another brush coat of diluted glue.
After that, most of what I apply will get a spray of “wet water” and glue dripped ono it from the bottle. Final grass tufts, small shrubs and the like are attached with full-strength glue.
Here’s a dry wash scene with all the built up layers. I find attempting to add grass or basic dirt an uncontrollable mess unless I brush the glue on first. Otherwise, it’s difficult to get even coverage or to avoid having things move around when sprayed. Some things like large rocks, talus, fill material along the roadbed, or ballast are impractical to attach onto a brush coat of glue, so they’re applied dry and glued later. Most such items have enough mass they stay put when a spray of water hits them.
Once you start getting used to finishing scenery, you’ll figure out what processes give you the best results, so they’re not likely to match what any one of us likes to do.
There are many ways to do it and it depends somwhat on the final look you want. If I was to do it again I would put a light stain on the plaster first and then percede with layering the other covers. Just be careful to use compatable methods, white glue can become a mess if it gets soaked in a later step. That is one reason I like matt medium which you can use full strength as a base and it is not that expencive if you buy by a larger container.
I agree with Eric. I paint a square foot or two, then put on the first layer of ground foam, using various colors and textures in the wet paint. Move along to the next section. Later, for additional layers, use a glue (or scenic cement) mixture and a wetting agent.
As I’m fond of saying, “best” is a word that doesn’t go well with this hobby. There are literally so many effective options, any one of which may be better for a given individual, that experimentation and hands on experience is really the only way to go. A quick read through the preceding posts will comfirm this.
That said, what I do is paint the terrain with interior latex paint (Glidden Nutmeg Brown, if you’re intersted). I let that dry. That does a very good job of sealing everything up. If I’m patching a small area, I’ll go ahead and sprinkle the ground cover into the wet paint.
For larger areas, I paint about one square foot with undiluted matte medium, then sprinkle on ground cover before the medium has a chance to “skin over”. Then I move on to the next section and repeat. When that’s dry (at least 24 hours), I mist it with diluted isopropyl alcohol (35% – the 70% stuff you buy in the drug store diluted 1:1 with filtered water) and then soak it with diluted matte medium (1:4 with water and a drop of dishwashing liquid per cup of solution) dribbled on from an old glue bottle. Then I sprinkle another layer of ground foam, this time mixing in some coarser clumps. You can work in bigger patches on this step: 4 square feet or so. Individual bushes and grass tufts are then glued on individually with Aleene’s Tacky Glue.
Thanks for the feedback first off, it’s much appreciated!
So, another question here. Let me first explain my process so far. Most of the ground cover is being applied to plaster cloth, some directly to plywood, in other places applied on top of dried Sculptamold. All of my plywood was first painted with an “earth brown” paint to seal the wood and for a base color.
I first applied my ballast to the entire yard area, as it is all the same color (yard mix from Arizona Rock and Mineral). I then applied in a small test area an eyedropper full of 70% alcohol and soaked the area .As MR stated in a project article concerning doing ballast, they did the same, and after two minutes, applied Scenic Cement from Woodland Scenics with another eyedropper, and applied enough that I could see it practically “rise” to the surface. What happened next was the ballast seemed to almost “bubble up”, and took forever to dry. (It still may not be dry).
My question is: What happened here? Did I apply TOO much alcohol, or too much glue, or? Another area I tested was an area of plaster cloth, first coated with full strength glue, then soil from Scenic Express applied and allowed to dry. I then came back and again soaked this area with 70% alcohol, WS scenic cement. After doing so, the area looked like mud, and again took forever to dry. What should I have done differently here perhaps?
Ballast takes a long time to absorb glue and dry. I give mine at least a full day. That being said, it’s always possible to add too much of either wetting agent or glue. The material has only so much space available to hold liquid. I’ve gone to waiting 20 minutes or more after wetting ballast before adding glue, giving the material sufficient time to absorb the water/alcohol mix away from the surface so I avoid over saturation.
Again, that sounds normal given the gluing procedure you describe. When I apply basic dirt for ground cover, I brush diluted glue on first and apply the dirt on top of it. I don’t therefore see this kind of saturation for most of my ground cover layers, as I’m letting the brush coat do essentially all the work.
You won’t know what the finished product will look like when until you have some experience seeing the progression for yourself. What you see when something’s soaked with glue and/or at a preliminary stage isn’t how the finished product will appear. Judge by your finished results only.
On my layout I tried something new (to me anyway) that I read about in the NG&SL Gazette. Instead of using paint over the completed hills and such, I used sanded grout. It mixes up like plaster, and comes in a couple of shades of brown. It’s a little like the “ground goop” some folks use. Unlike paint, it has a rough texture to it, so it looks like dirt or sand. After it hardened, I ‘painted’ on white glue and spread the ground foam grass over it.
I also should have mentioned I used straight 70% alcohol, forgetting to dilute it, but now I realize I did soak it pretty well also. Perhaps too much straight alcohol here without dilution?
The dirt did finally dry, and I’m pleased with that result, everything is glued down pretty well. So I guess the main thing is I should have diluted the 70% alcohol, and perhaps not soaked it? I also think I will wait a longer period until I apply the glue or scenic cement.
Which leads me to hopefully one final question. My layout is in a detached garage without heat. However, it stays about 12-15 degrees warmer than the outside air temperature. Out here in Colorado, we’ve had weeks in the upper fifties to low 60’s. So my question is, with ballast especially taking longer to dry, what’s the temperature minimum I should be doing this ballast work?
It sounds like you’ve got the wetting and adhesive part down pretty good (FWIW, I wet with alcohol, so that everything looks wet, let stand for a minute or two, then add adhesive until it oozes out, and yes, it takes at least a full day to dry completely).
Unheated areas for layouts can be a tricky issue. Mine is in an unheated basement that nevertheless stays at about 55 degrees year round. I keep the humidity controlled with a dehumidifier. Whether your adhesives will cure really depends on the adhesive. Most glues that are water based, you don’t ever want them to freeze (white glue, tacky glue, and carpenter’s glue fall into this category), at least until they are cured. Ambient temperature and especially humidity will greatly affect drying time, so make sure they have enough time to cure before you expect freezing temps.
The big issue, though, will be expansion and contraction. Plastic and metal do a fair bit of expanding / contracting due to temperature. Wood is le
