Ok, so i have a bunch of the BK Enterprises frog/point assemblies, and I just got a package of ME weathered turnout ties. I’ve got a couple questions.
can I build the turnout at my workbench without any roadbed underneith it? I use ME’s micro spikes, and will most likely use their small spikes around the frog and outside of the stock rails by the points. Can I spike the ties without having to have some cork or lauan underneith?
how hard is it to spike into lauan? My g/f’s grandfather gave me a sample of it that i’m going to use if i have to have some form of roadbed under the ties when I build the turnout
can I just use my exacto knife to trim the ties to length?
i’ve got the CV turnout diagram/templates that Jack sent me when he sent me some samples of the tie-strips. i put the frog/point assembly over the paper template, and everything lined up fine. Can I use this tie-spacing for building my turnout, or should I find another one?
with these BK Enterprise point/frog assemblies, I’m assuming I’ll have to notch the stock rails, correct?
I think that covers everything… thanks a lot guys. Its all your fault I’m addicted to spiking rail now…
Do the spikes go all the way through the ties? If yes, you need roadbed underneath. If no, you might be able to get away without it. I would be concerned carrying the turnout without roadbed, but I’ve never built at the bench before to know. Always built on site on the layout.
Luaun plywood is generally soft enough to spike into if the spikes don’t hit a glue layer, as is most soft wood. However, you will occasionally hit hard spots in the grain which will curl spikes. Don’t ask me how I know this, or the language I used at the 10th curled spike. I recommend Homasote for roadbed. Home Deport sells 10ft long, 3.5" wide strips for concrete forms if you don’t want to deal with sheets. I don’t like cork as a roadbed. The rubbery feel when a spike goes into cork gives me a feeling I’m not controlling the final angle and set of the spike. And cork has always dried out and crumbled on me after about 8-10 years.
Sure. It’s easier if you have a pattern of what length ties to use where in the turnout. Prototype ties increased their length in increments of 6", IIRC.
If it lines up, what are you worried about?
You can also shape the points so that the stock rails don’t need to be notched - the base of the points needs to be removed where it will interfere with the base of the stock rail. Personally, I prefer to avoid the notches - but that’s me. Plenty of folks do notch the stock rails. The important point is that the points fit very close against the stock rail so that wheels cannot “pick” the points.
Howdy, Greg. As a long-time hand-assembler, I’ll try to give you my thoughts - in order:
Several possibilities:
If the spikes don’t penetrate the ties, you can assemble your turnout - but be aware that it will be as fragile as un-leaded stained glass unless there’s something holding the ties together.
If the spikes do penetrate the ties, work over a layer of foam. The spikes won’t hold when you lift the turnout off - but it will still be super-fragile.
Use a piece of your chosen roadbed material, sized to drop into place like a piece of jigsaw puzzle, and build on that.
Build over something that will anchor the ties as a unit. I build in place on the layout over cardstock templates - no reason that you can’t do the same on the bench (ties glued to template, spikes through both into foam if long enough - see 2 above.) You will have to use a cardstock shim under adjacent flex-track ends to keep rail heights even.
I don’t like spiking into plywood, but that’s me. Try a few test spikes and go from there.
Just make sure you are using a SHARP #11 or chisel-point
Yes but I wouldn’t spike it into the ties. The two ways I build switches on the workbench are:
Use PC board ties to assemble the turonut and then spike it to regular ties on the layout. this is basically the same idea as Fast Tracks only when I don’t use the jigs to build the turnouts. I built dozens of switches this way 20 years ago for the original HSME layout in Manvel, TX.
Build the switch on a board or homasote without any ties, then solder thin strips of tin or brass across the tops of the rails, then unspike the switch. Carry it over to the layout, spike it back down and unsolder the strips. Several of the switches at the Schuylkill Valley Model RR club in Phoenixville, PA were built this way.
Some people swear by it, some people swear at it. I sure wouldn’t use micro spikes.
Sure. I glue a paper template of the switch in place and then glue the ties to that, lining them up with the staggered side of the switch. Then I put a straight edge along the straight side of the switch and cut them even.
I almost always use a photocopy of a switch diagram under my switches to assit in aligning the parts and spacing ties.
Can’t help you there. I always notch the base, but NOT
Wow, thanks for all the replies. I really like the card-stock idea a lot. What I think I’ll end up doing is making big sections of track at a time, because I’d like to be able do what Tony Koester did when making his Coal Fork branch: no joints near points. basically having a continuous stock rail throughout the entire ladder; I would only need to gap the frog rails anyway, and this would make things a lot easier to build.
but boy do I really like that cardstock idea. I was thinking of doing cardboard, but cardstock is a lot studier and easier to deal with, I would assume.
I just bought a bunch of ME’s weathered ties and some code 70 rail, because I want to build a little mine diorama/module that I can eventually incorporate into a layout. This way I can just build the whole track arrangement as one solid unit. although I might not want to get too big, because it wouldn’t be sturdy… unless i did it on gator board or something. hmmm… unless i used some popsicle sticks to brace the cardstock.
either way I’m just going to build one turnout first anyway so I can get my wooden tie skills down. I already laid a few strips of the CV tiestrips; those were easy! haha.
Oh!!! more questions:
will an NMRA guage give me the correct location of the rail on the tie? as in, how far from the edge of the tie should a rail be placed so that the whole unit is centered
If I use my NMRA guage at every tie, or every… 3 ties, will I be fine? Or will i still need to get a 3-point-er? I plan on getting either a 3-point guage and/or the Railway Engineering rollee guages, but i was just at my LHS and they didn’t have any code 70 guages (i bought their two code 55 guages… hehe) If only the BK turnouts were code 55, because I ahve a bundle of ME code 55 flex i could just strip… oh well.
None of the gauges I’m familiar with center the rails on the ties. When I lay out the track on the roadbed in pencil, I don’t bother with centerlines any more. I just put where the rails are going to go. Ties are glued on top using a home-made piano key jig for spacing. Lateral spacing is done by eye, using the rail lines as a guide for centering.
I pre-stain my wood ties. Add ballast while the glue for the ties is still wet. Next day, come back and sand the tops of the ties level (very important to me) using fine sandpaper attached to an 8" block of 1x2 with rounded ends. The tie tops are level when the stain is being sanded on all ties. Then vacuum and restain. You are now ready for spiking rail. I also pre-paint the rail before spiking.
You need 2-3 3 point or rollee gauges. 2-3 gauges need to sit on the rail head, holding it in place while you spike. Check the 3 point gauges with your NMRA gauge - I’ve bought some that were half a railhead width out of wack. The 3 point style gauges provide gauge widening on the curves (2 slots go on the outer rail). Gauge widening is only needed when you are trying to run sharp curves (18-20" radius or
Hey thanks for the answers to my questions; i know there were a lot, haha. I’ve got the ties down and glued. I found a piece of rectangular plywood (?) thats the exact same height as my cork turnout roadbed pads. it probably is lauan, but i don’t know. won’t have any time tomarrow to get any work done on it, but i’ll have pictures to show. most likely tuesday I’ll have some time to start spiking.
i do have another question though: I have the frog/point assembly, but the plain rail that I had bought turned out to be code 83 even though the plastic wrapper bag thing that the pieces were in at the store was labeled code 70 w/ a sharpie. So, do you think i would be able to spike down the frog/point assembly first without the stock rails being in place? Or is it better to start with them anyway, even if you aren’t building your own points and frog, ala Tony Koester’s method that was in Trackwork and Lineside Details? thanks
I will assume that you are going to get the same size rail for the whole turnout. Having different size rails will probably mess it up.
I like to lay the straight(er) stock rail first. Since I build over templates 95% of the time, I then position the frog and lay the other stock rail gauged off the frog.
Yeah of course I’m going to use the same size rail; its just annoying cuz I need to make another trip up to the LHS, and that means I’ll probably spend more money that I don’t really want to spend just yet, lol. Unless anyone here has some plain Code 70 rail that they would want to trade for some plain code 83! I’ve got about… 8 or 9 pieces of ME flex left, but I’d rather not strip another piece of that, because its expensive. Andy sells foot-long pieces of rail, though, at his Proto87 store so I guess I’ll do that, and maaaaybe strip just one more piece… bah.
How do you guys go about centering the rail on the ties? I’m thinking of just holding a piece of flex up against it and then mark the proper rail positions, but will the NMRA guage help? As in, is the guage itself as wide as the ties, and then you can see where the rails shoudl be located on the ties with its track/flangeway guages?