With SD40’s, SD40-2 etc coming to the end of their working life, has there been any figure done into rebuilding with 12 cyl 710 prime movers. Is it not worth the effort, or expense? I read often the SD40’s are still going and reliable but would a new hart help their economy and emissions or just wasting money on a worn out chassis? I understand 12 cy EMD engines are not liked in some quarters, ( not sure why exactly ) although they are compatible with other EMD engines, but would they fit easily ( cheaply ) to replace the 16-645? GMS
Yes, EMD has a prototype SD40-2 equipped with the 12-cylinder 710G3C diesel testing. They also have a 8-cylinder version for GP38s and GP40 rebuilding to GP22s. EMD calls the program 710ECO series.
I am aware of the EMD 710ECO GP7 or GP22 that is doing the rounds, and I don’t think anyone is racing to do it, as the old 645 engine is so cheap to rebuild that the cost of conversion is not economical. Now fuel prices have dropped and the recession is upon us I presume any sort of rebuild is cancelled. Rebuilding a road unit of SD40 size may have been more worth the effort, at least until the current recession . GMS
I think KCS will be getting some with a 2,200 8-710, along with 8-710 B-Bs rebuilds.
Rebuilding of SD40’s with upgraded 645 engines is probably unlikely because of environmental requirements, among other things.
See here for the KCS program, it doesn’t have hardly any details, though
I am not sure if it is even the engine as much as the fact that these older locomotives might just be considered outdated in the modern, wide cab era. It would be nice to think that the SD40 type will be around for a long time but technology has advanced enough that even these one time top of the line units might not have a place in the modern rail scene. Or at least not in mainline service, though I personally would like to see them still around doing this.
IIRC isn’t by 2010 that all reman or new locomotives have to meet Teir 2 Emisson levels. If that is the case then the 645 prime mover is OUT you have no choice but to reengine with the new 710 series that EMD is coming out with or if it is a GE the new GEVO series engine to meet Emission Standards or see if someone will come out with an aftermarket catalytic converter that will allow you to meet those stnadards yet meet the maintance standards of the RR’s not an easy task. Why do you think the OTR trucking industry is hurting so bad right now they have had so much crap thrown at them emisson wise YET CARB wants MORE aka RETROFIT all the reefer units in the NATION and all the pre 2008 trucks by 2010 at a cost of 15 billion bucks that plus mandating areo skirting on all trailers that even MIGHT GO INTO CA at a cost of 2 BILLION MORE. The fuel savings on the skirts is only 50 million over 10 years and the maintance costs are 100 million more this YET CARB IS NOT LISTENING TO THE INDUSTRY THEY ARE GOING TO KILL.
I’m not so sure there isn’t a retrofit Tier II kit for lcomotives with 645E3. I’d guess injectors and split cooling would do it. The split cooling would take some plumbing though.
It goes deep into the amount of emissions that the engine produce as in PPM of NOX and CO CO2 unburned fuel and other stuff. Put it to you this way there is NOT ONE pre 2008 engine design LEFT in the OTR industry out there. the 60 Series RETIRED and replaced the 3406 cat retired replaced witht ehACERT the N-14 cummions replaced with the Sig line all of which are part eaters. The heavy truck engine manufacturs tried to do it with the Europe lines and found out something what worked over there SURE AS HELL DOES NOT WORK OVER HERE.
I think the 645F-powered MP36 series of commuter locos are Tier-2 compliant since MPI is still building brand new ones, though I’m not sure that’s due to modifications to the Polish-built 645F prime mover built under license by GE?
The latest reports I heard stated that the 645 was not going to meet the next round of emissons at all regarless of WHAT they did to it. So the MP36 was being modified to accept the 710 series prime mover instead of the 645.
Tier III is not going to be that bad, the diesel will have to run on Ultra-low Sulphur Diesel, and there is a requirement for some upgrading from older standards. Tier IV will be the next big change.
Think of Tier 3 as the 2004 OTR diesel Emission standard yeah not to hard to meet. However Tier 4 is going to hit them HARDER THAN A SLEDEHAMMER TO A CERTAIN PORTAIN OF THE MALE ANATOMY. Ask any person that works in the OTR trucking indusrty how bad the 2008 Emisson Engines are on Fuel Economy and Reliabilty and you will here they are all nothing but a POS. 2010 standards ARE TEH RESON WHY CAT IS LEAVING THE OTR INDUSTRY PERIOD they are sick and tired of being told that these new regs are better for the enviroment whn the older engines got 2X the fuel economy and also smoked less than a ALCO 424 did with a BLOWN TURBO when they are going thru a forced regenaration of their Diesel Particulate Filters. CAT did a test with some of their old engines they actually produce LESS emissons on the ULSF than the new ones are with the current issuee YET THE CARB Board of California and the EPA refuse to admit they are wrong because their ENGINEERS SAY THAT THEY SHOULD BE BETTER THAN THE OLD ONES. Have fun when the new standards hit the RR’s.
Just to add I asked a friend of mine that is an engineer for CAT in their engine devolpment department he is one of the guys that has to come up with the crap that has to help the engines meet the standards that EPA throws at them. They took a 645 and 710 since they do compete with them in the marine industry and wanted to see if they could be made to MEET the tier 3 and 4 emisson standards the 645 failed at 3 and 4 the 710 barely made 3 by leaning her out so much she had issues with with reliabliaty at full power and could not be made to meet 4 even with intercooling and every trick cat tried. Simply put there is no way you can make a 2 stroke meet the future standards coming up. The era of the 2 stroke is done very soon.
EMD still has the 265H up their sleeves, despite disappointment with the SD90MAC. Maybe sometime in the next several years EMD will be coming out with a SD89ACe.
CAT has enough problems of their own with out getting into the EMD parts business. The 2 stroke engines principle problem is at low loads with lube oil carry over. Their are railroad tests in conjunction with Southwest Research going on using after treatment catalysts that look promising. Is it possible to get any info on exactly what CAT tried as in a engineering report or is this a product of their rumor mill. Their 3500 series engine has done very well in the low horsepower range in sales. I hears to many times that the sell new engines very cheap then make it up on parts sales to the point that the owner is better off buying a new engine and stripping it for parts. They also lock in a deal by very favorable rates and include a service contract and probably extended warranty to cover all the parts they’ll need. The for sure EMD replacement program engine the larger 3600 seems to be success in export sales too much maintenance for domestic use. As for the 265H engine EMD doesn’t seem to have the money to up grade it to tier 2 level and sales for power products can support it so my guess they will sell the whole thing to the Chinese. I am curious as to why CAT was interested in the 645 engine since its out of production but all of the parts developed for the 710 like piston rings and fuel injectors will work on the 645. California is behind this and are after the foreign shipping companies. I suspect that those companies might be switching to friendlier ports in Mexico and Canada. Not as many lawyers there to sue you when their pilot wrecks your ship.
Democrats tell us “Big Business” is an evil accolyte of the Republicans. Yet GE is fully on board with Obama and the “Climate Change” hysteria. (Did you notice it’s not “Global Warming” anymore…either colder or warmer, its just bad and its all YOUR fault, you ugly Americans!)
GE loves “Climate Change.” It will allow them to replace every old loco, powerplant, and light bulb with a brand new GEVO/hybrid, GE Windmill, GE reactor, or GE flouresant light bulb, all at a substantialy higher price than what they replace.
Big Business loves Big Government. Small business is killed by Big Governement. Bye-Bye short lines, bye-bye Mom and Pop truckers. And I’ll make a gentleman’s bet…bye-bye EMD road switchers.[sigh]
I have read recently (in TRAINS) that UP is experimenting with upgraded emission control equipment on an MP15. I know it includes a particle emissions filter system and some sort of additional exhaust treatment adapted from industrial/marine apllication. IIRC, they were trying to meet Tier III compliance…
Of course EMD would love to sell as many 710 ECO repowering packages as they can as well, so there will still be Geeps about…that sort of regulatory requirement is obv. much harder on smaller operators.