Seeking help with R-O-W 4040 signals

Fife,

I usually go to Radio Shack to get the full wave bridge rectifiers. I use ones that are rated at 4 amps to be safe. You could connect several relays to one rectifier. If you powered that relay without a rectifier, the relay might be dead now. If it still works, go play the lottery.[:D]

Fife,

I just read the datasheet again, and it says AC voltage can be used to power the coil, so the rectifier isn’t absolutely necessary. Sorry about that.

I’m below a novice when it comes to electronics, so no apologies needed. I appreciate your time and your guidance. Let’s hope this works.

Here’s how I would wire it:

outside rails----transformer common

accessory transformer 12 V or center rail----relay coil 13 (or 14)

relay coil 14 (or 13, respectively)----control rail

accessory transformer 12 V or center rail----relay C terminal 12

relay NO terminal 8----signal red wire

relay NC terminal 4----signal green wire

signal black wire----transformer common or outside rails.

I enlarged the picture of the signal, There is indeed a yellow light. Looks like the signal itself may have some hidden features too.

What I had described was assuming an AC relay, and two lights. After seeing a picture of the other side of the relay, my suggested wiring scheme will not work - I guessed wrong for the common terminal. Sorry.

lionelsoni - Your last suggestion puts us back at square one. That is the schematic that the signals came with, and yet, as soon as you connect 13 to the control rail, the signal stays on red, and won’t change. Yes, the rail is insulated on both ends.

We’re just missing a step somewhere. [banghead]

probe - Tried your idea of useing the odd posts (1, 5, 9, 13, 14 to insulated), which netted the same results, just on the other side of the relay.

Back to the drawing board…

Fife,

I am starting to think that the relay is defective.

If it were just one, I’d agree. However, I have 4 currently on the layout, and they are all responding the same.

Perhaps use a separate power source than the Z4000…?

It’s got to be the control rail. With no train present, the control rail is just a piece of metal (supposedly) not connected to anything electrically. Is it perhaps crimped into a metal tie? If so, is the insulator good?

Fife-

Is the green signal on before you connect 13 to the control rail?

Does the relay ‘click’ when you connect 13 to the control rail and the red light come on?

If this is the case, it sounds like the control rail is not isolated.

If you have an ohm meter, you can check for continuety between the control rail and the other outside rail. It should read like an open circuit.

Good luck.

8ntruck - That’s exactly what is happening. But it’s happening when there is no power to track. And it’s happening elsewhere with the other signals…

It doesn’t matter whether the track is powered. Your control rail is somehow not isolated; it is connected in some way to the other rails, either at its ends or through the crossties, perhaps. What kind of track do you have; and how did you make your control rail?

K-Line O 3-rail track, with white plastic insulator pins on each end. The track’s center rail is isolated with black paper stock between the rail and black metal crossties…blaaaack metal crossties…

[D)]

lionelsoni - I take it I now have the labor intensive task of placing some type of insulation at each tie…? This will kinda kill what I wanted to do in the tunnel area, but I guess that plan will have to change.

Bummer. Lionel does sell insulated track (6-12840), but it’s $8.99 for a 10-inch section, compared to $2.89 for the regular stuff. If you have a long stretch that you need to insulate, and particularly if it’s hidden in a tunnel, you might consider using one of the other track systems there that have plastic or wood ties.

This section of hidden track…well, it ain’t bein’ replaced; fixed. Gonna need to find some other track sections for the signals.

Thanks for the help.

Some Marx accessories used a brass channel with insulation on the inside that clipped over one of the outside rails, making standard track act like track with an insulated outside rail.

You could copy this using some thin (.010" or .015") brass with electrician’s tape applied to one side, then formed into a channel to fit over the rail.

May or may not be a good idea, depending on how much hidden track you have and how accessable it is, and how much fabrication you want to do.

How about an infrared signal controller? No need to mess with the track with these. Some have adjustable time delays that might be helpful. I’ve never used one, so I can’t really speak for how well they work.

Fife- I remember an article some where that created a trip section by covering a section of out side rail with insulation. Maybe electrical tape? A thin piece of brass was placed over it and was used to trigger the signal

If you are considering this you might also consider contacting Robert Grossman as he stocks just such an item that Marx used. I think there are two lengths available. One about 3 or 4 inches and also a longer one.

Those are excellent tips, fellers. I already purchased a sheet of thin rubber that will be cut and fitted onto the track sections affected.