How big is your layout, and how many trains do you intend to run at the same time?
With the added features of the Zephyr Xtra over the old Zephyr, in most cases it’s a no-brainer, the Xtra plus a UT4 or a DT402 walkaround throttle has more features than the SEB Xtra.
–Randy
More often than not, you end up expanding and wishing you got something with more capacity after you bought the more basic DCC set. I went ahead and just went with the Chief System when I bought mine because it would have plenty of expansion capacity and the discount price was rather modest for the non-radio set when I bought it. Of course with the cost of the same set today with the much more expensive controller 402D the cost is alot higher in one go.
Based on the common assumption you will want more capacity, go with the Empire Builder.
I have the older zephyr,and recently added the empire builder . I know theres a CAUTION that you can reprogram ALL locos with the Empire Builder set to "command mode ". I dont know all the specifics on this maybe some one will explain …Jerry
I have the SEB and the big advantage I saw when shopping for a DCC system was more power- Not know how many locos I would and I did not want to go back and have to buy a booster right away, and the big advantage is the throttle, which is basicly two throttles in one so I can control two different trains at the same time.
I didn’t consider the Super Empire Builder because it didn’t have all the features of the other two. I looked at the Zephyr and the Super Chief. I chose the Super Chief for the extra power. If you don’t need the power then the Zephyr should be fine. You can always add throttles later.
At first i purchased the SEB radio set and about 2 days after I started using it I was not happy. The SEB comes with a DB150 which is a limited command station. The Zephyr and the Super Chief (SC) are both true command stations and both have the option for a programing track and the ability to read back CV values. Even with a LocoBuffer attached to the loco net I was still unable to read CVs with my computer. If you ask me the SEB is a great set to use as an add on to the existing SC or Zephyr set but not to be used as the command station by itself. Spend the little extra get the better set.
Massey
I am impressed with some of you guys. Love that lone wolf status (“no clubs for me” in the other thread), but still need power to run more than 6-7 sound-equipped locomotives simultaneously. I guess I’m seriously missing the boat with single engine/single train at a time ops, which requires no more than 0.5 amps of power available. I definitely have to go on more layout tours to see these amazing basement-filling masterpieces with several sound-equipped double-headed trains all being controlled at once by a single person.
If the OP has a smaller layout, or believes in one train per person/operator, the Zephyr is going to be all the power you want or need.
my thoughts, your choices
Fred W
Both have good and bad points, both can have them overcome with options. It all comes down to what you want and how much you want to spend,
The main negative on the SEB is the lack of a true dedicated program track and the ability to read back CV’s. You can add a PR3 PC interface, an old cast off PC and the free Decoder Pro application and you have overcome this shortcoming if it is a big deal to you.
The main negatives of the Zephyr XTra are the lack of a walk around throttle, of course you can just purchase one and plug it in. And the lower power out put, which may not be an issue at all depending on the number of locos you want to run at once. It is dead easy to add a booster like the DB150 later, so also may not be a deal breaker.
SEB can be had for $284, plus a $45 power supply for a total of $329.00
Z Xtra can be had for $179.00 plus a DT402 throttle for $148 for a total of $327.00
Same price in other words. One has 5 amps and no CV read back, the other has 3 amps and two throttles plus CV read back.
A PR3 can be added to either for $68.00 giving the SEB the CV read-back as well as PC connectivity and adding the PC connectivity to the Z.
If you are going to run with a friend then the Z plus throttle is far the best deal IMO. Actually, I think it is the best deal regardless of how many plan to run at the same time.
I have the old version Zephyr and the Empire Builder. The Zephyr ran my original 10x16 layout with no problems at all. I could easily run 4 or 5 sound equiped loco’s without even a hiccup out of the Zephyr. I bought the Empire builder basically because I was expanding and thought I might need more power later on. The only downfall to the Empire builder is you can’t read CV’s. Now saying that I very rarely even look at old CV settings in loco’s now. I basically just plug in the decoder, write it’s address and I’m done. Most DCC users do that after awhile so you really don’t need to read back CV’s. Speed matching loco’s and if you run into a problem is really the only time you really want to read CV’s. If you have a modest size layout then go with the Zephyr BUT your going to want to pick up a DT402 throttle, you will trust me and maybe a couple UP5 panels as well. If your layout is going to be large then skip the Empire Builder and go with the Super Chief. It’s not much more then the Empire Builder.
I actually have both but don;t really need the SEB. It’s used just as a booster, my Zephyr is the command station so I have dedicated program track and CV readback. I’ll never run more than 10 trains on my layout, there’s not enough room. The Zephyr track output powers my stationary decoders, the DB150 output runs the trains. It’s overkill, I don;t need 5 amps. I’ve had as many as 8 locos, 4 with sound, 4 without, running on my Zephyr - and that’s the old one, the new one has half an amp more power. But I got the set on a closeout for little more than the price of the DT402 which I wanted anyway. I could have gotten away with a cheap simplistic accessory booster to run my stationary decoders.
The ‘program all locos’ thing with e SEB is because the DB150 does not have a dedicated program track connection., SO running or programming, all signals come out the same pair of terminals. So if you go into service mode programming (programmign ont he program track), the signals go out the very same terminals and any loco left ont he rails will be programmed. The solution is to install a toggle to cut power from all but an isolated program track, but if you forget to flip the switch… Word is the audoswitch device that NCE has for the PowerCab (it has the same ‘problem’) will work with the DB150 as well - this serves to cut power to the main track when you go into program mode automatically, something the Zephyr and Super Chief do already - although they don;t actually cut power to the main, they just don;t send program command there. Zephyr and SUper CHief can continue to run trains on the main while one is being programmed on the program track.
–Randy
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Well your post is blank on my end. What did I do now?? Or is this part of the I.E. 9 screw-up?
It wasn’t blank the first time I read it, then I made my post and when I came back it was blank - perhaps it was deleted?
–Randy
Hi everyone,
I would like to thank you all for taking the time to answer my original post, especially given that the body of it is apparently blank! I first checked to see what answers I had received, when only two of you had responded. At which point, I was astonished to see that the body of my original post was blank! I thought that to be very strange. But, when I tried to post a reply thanking you for the responses and to re-post the information I had that I had typed in, I found that I kept getting an error message indicating that I can’t submit a blank post. Sorry for hijacking my own thread! I will raise that question in another thread.
Based upon the responses so far, I know which way I am now leaning. But, to answer the questions that a few of you had asked, here is some of the information that I had tried to include when I started the thread.
My layout is an N Scale around the room (approximately 14’ x 14’ with a lift-out section across the doorway into the room and another across a closet doorway), with a central peninsula. I am almost without exception the only operator. But, when there is an exception, there will only be one other operator. My layout is set up to maximimize switching. But, once I have the DCC connected, I plan to have at least one train circling the layout on the main, while I control another locomotive for switching and hauling duties. I currently have three DCC locomotives, but have five more that I will be installing decoders into in the not too distant future. I currently have a Loco-Motion Tech II 2500 DC control/throttle from previous layouts and a Digitrax UT4 utility throttle that I use at club layouts.
Once again, thank you for the information and thoughts that have been shared with me already, and in advance for any that will be shared following this addition.
The Zephyr Xtra will more than handle what you propose. You can just plug the UT4 in, or run a couple of UP5 panels for the UT4 and you will be all set.
Here’s an interesting question from a newbie - is it the correct understanding to believe that the DigiTrax Zephyr can be expanded like the other DigiTrax products with no other special limits? I am basically eye-ing the product after a bit of prodding on this forum, and I guess I could live with the Zephyr panel (not excited about it - but if I integrate computer control, I won’t have to worry) but the super-television-remote style of controller in the Super Empire Builder and beyond would drive me batty in short order.
You can take any Digitrax option and add it to a Zephyr. So you can add a PC interface, wireless panel, throttle etc. by just plugging them into the Loconet connections. This is the real beauty of the Loconet, just plug in and away you go, you don’t have to reconfigure the Zephyr at all.
Now having said that, there are some limits imposed when the Zephyr continues to be used as the command station.
For example you can only plug in 20 throttles (like that is a limit for most folks!)
But, in the future you can add a higher capacity command station and convert the Zephyr to be just a power district and a throttle, but not the command station.
My old Z, not the new Xtra, continues to be the command station at the center of a Loconet that has a DB150 booster, 3 UP panels, UR90 Infra red wireless panel, a UR92 duplex radio panel, 4 additional throttles, a Locobuffer PC interface and computer running decoder pro, a PM42 power management device and 3 auto reversers. Oh and a basic DC powerpack for really little kids to use. I have found it to be really easy to expand, in fact my expansion is such that some of the other basic starter sets could not have achieved what has been done.
I reacted to Fwrights “chide” post but decided to remove it. He seemed rather critical of folks who seem to get DCC systems which are “over rated” for their puny home layouts. One doesn’t need a giant basement layout to tax the power output of the low end DCC systems however. But maybe most of todays loco’s draw such little power that you can run a couple of 4 or 5 MU’d sets without pushing the low end systems? I’m not a real model railroader with a place to build a layout right now so I’ll defer to those who are up on current stuff.
I read your post before you deleted it and felt you made a very valid point and a perfectly good reason why a smaller layout might benefit from a larger capacity system. I suspect that Digitrax and NCE would be pleased to read the posting also, because they are not going to do well if all anyone buys is the basic starter system. Anyway, if you have the money, why not start with a higher end system? Perhaps you don’t need the Amp capacity, but there are other features that may be attractive.