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Senator introduces legislation to delay positive train control implementation
Cab signals would solve the problem, no need for PTC/PTS. Even systems such as ATC, or ATS, combined with cab signals. Would be far cheaper than PTC/PTS.
Mr. Harrison: Where would you propose the government come up with the money to fund safety on the entire United States railroad system? Should we cut social security, healthcare, law enforcement, the fight against drugs? How about we close down the prisons and jails and use that money on PTC? We don’t need schools any longer.
As long as the gov’t. is paying for it, how about we give a gun to every American over 12, and fire all the cops. Then just let all the human problems we solved with vigilante justice. Think of the money we would save!!
Then we could completely rebuild the rail system, and put PTC in place by the deadline, even though it has not been tested. The FCC doesn’t need to decide on the frequencies…just let the railroads pick a number for their freqs! Now, if we do this completely, the only place in the United States that will be SAFE will be the RAILROADS!!!
Accidents happen. With the forces, weight, and cargoes involved when you have a train wreck it is going to be a mess. Especially at speed. PTC is one way of reducing the potential. It will not be perfect. Lac-Megantic wreck may or may not have happened with PTC. I do not see that wreck as having been able to be prevented by PTC. An unmanned train that had been parked. A dispatcher might not have noticed for 10 or 15 minutes, the time for the train to have gotten loose. Yes the FCC is needed like any number of other government bureaucracies. It keeps fights from breaking out over who has what frequencies. By providing a place to assign and to mediate disputes over interference. And having the science to investigate problems.
Senator John Thune gets it. Too bad those living in the alternative reality of pseudo-intellectualism don’t. Technology in the university lab based on computer models and wishful thinking seldom transfers into the real world without many issues and problems. PTC is somehow supposed to work with early 20th century technology and meet a government imposed deadline based on a number that some pseudo-intellectual pulled out of a computer random number generator and told Congress the deadline can be met and is based in reality. Meanwhile the railroads are having all kinds of technical problems as the pseudo-intellectuals in their ivory towers proclaim the railroads to be dragging their collective feet and need to be punished by government. I don’t think so. If anything, government needs to get itself out of the way and let the railroads come up with a workable standard, testing and retesting until it is correct, and then deploy it. Forget the deadline. Why rush and do a system that keeps failing in the real world? Other than doing something completely wrong is good enough for pseudo-intellectual approval because it makes them feel good?
Apparently at least one person in Congress has realized that the state of the art of PTC is not so advanced that a reliable system can be put into service at the time originally specified, and that much more time is needed to develop a reliable system that can be applied to the specified lines.
I wonder could not some sort of GPS tracking be utilized to keep track of what is where?
Delaying the deadline until the technology has a chance to be fully developed, tested and proven reliable makes a great deal of sense. Let’s hope enough politicians see that.
For those who are crying for the immediate implementation, I suggest you should also focus on a far more important safety concern. This same technology should be implemented on the roads, say two years later in 2017, to prevent automobiles running red lights and stop signs, head-on collisions, exceeding the speed limits, and all the other misdeeds that are causing a much greater loss of life, injuries and property damage. It will probably only add another $10,000 to the price of your car, maybe $15,000 to retrofit your older model, but of course since safety is far more important than cost you won’t mind paying that yourself.
If we as someone said used a lot of the money we are spending on rebuilding countries that hate us instead of rebuilding America something is really wrong with that mentality. We spend billions on overseas projects and weapons -bring it home for Gods’ sake.
If we as someone said used a lot of the money we are spending on rebuilding countries that hate us instead of rebuilding America something is really wrong with that mentality. We spend billions on overseas projects and weapons -bring it home for Gods’ sake.
@GEORGE BROWN - If it’s so much money we have to shut down the entire government, as you’re claiming, then why are you expecting the railroads to pay for it?
Of course, your assertion is wild eyed nonsense. And as I said (paraphrased) in my comment - if you’re going to tax the railroads, at least spend the money on the railroads.
FWIW I’m not a tea partier, so false choices between different spending programs are not going to persuade me. We have the lowest tax rates in decades, and the highest military spending in decades. I think we can adjust everything a little. Unfortunately, it seems that the people screaming the most about “deficits” are also the least likely to demand changes to either.
Hell no.
This isn’t going to be a popular view around here, but here it is:
Look, if there really is a problem with railroads funding this, then fund it. The government has a right to expect safe rules of conduct but it doesn’t have a right to impose this without coming up with sources of funding. The industry pays more than enough in taxes to justify the government stepping in and ponying up the cash. It should do so.
But under no circumstances should PTC be delayed. We’re talking about an industry that upon hearing a major disaster occurred on a railroad where an engineer, following standard procedure and with the full agreement of his dispatchers, left an oil train with an engine in a terrible state of disrepair on the mainline at the top of a hill on a slope with no derailers, completely unattended, screams loudly “Don’t be so mean about the CEO! He’s a nice guy! How dare you critificate one of us we’d have done the same thing in his position don’t you know his company was short on cash?!!”
The US railroad system is run by idiots who do not care about safety. They need it forced upon them. That’s obviously objective fact at this point. The reaction of the industry to Lac Megantic would be entirely different if there was any interest in safety.
PTC is a slam dunk. It’s an obvious safety improvement for a system that currently lacks even comparatively cheap ATS and ATP systems on most of the network.
This is a network so atrocious that the NTSB and FRA seriously believe that passengers aren’t safe unless railcars are made effectively indestructible because it’s just inevitable they’re going to be hit by freight trains on a regular basis. These kinds of standards are terrible, they kill the economic viability of passenger service, and they make the US rail system the laughing stock of the world.
It’s time basic safety systems became part of the US rail system.
Anyone that believes this legislation has more than a snowball’s chance, please note: There are 60 votes against this measure. It will die in the senate.
Since the Government mandated PTC than said Government should redirect funds that are wasted on foreign aide to countries that like us only for the cash cow, to the railroads, for “public safety”.
Cab signals, with or without ATC/ATS overlay, do not provide positive stop enforcement. There is no “stop” indication in existing cab signal systems (except Amtrak’s ACSES on the NEC). A wayside “stop” signal results in a “restrictive” cab indication; the incapacitated or distracted engineer can proceed at restricted speed through “stop” signals unimpeded. Positive stop enforcement is one of the several important features provided by PTC. However, until many serious issues are fully resolved, i.e. communications licensing, tower siting, equipment reliability testing, etc., are resolved, rushing the system to completion will cause more harm than good.
Braden- Amtrak’s ACSES PTC system is cab signal based…
What’s missing in the report is if the date set-back in the legislation is just that or if it requires phasing in.
I “love” that term pseudo intellectual especially when it is used repeatedly. Makes me think the one using it is one himself.
How about cutting the proselytizing . It doesn’t accomplish anything.
The original deadline for implementation was not derived by pulling a number (seven years) out of the sky. After the Chatsworth disaster in 2008, because PTC was already in preliminary testing on BNSF and ARR, the railroads were consulted as to how soon they thought that PTC would be ready for nationwide use. The seven year figure was from the railroads’ own estimate. As we all know now, this original timeframe was unrealistic. While human error collisions continue to occur, as they have since the beginning of railroading, it is prudent to delay the deadline until the technology is fully ready.
@DR WILLIAM J MCDONALD - Dr, the Goose doesn’t care about trains at all. He only comes here to bash the government.
This is so typical of the GOP. The greedy Obstructionist Pricks cares a lot about profits and doesn’t give a rat’s ass about the safety and well being of our nation’s people. Sen. John Thune (R) SD is NO exception.