We got 2 cars of lumber in yesterday. Usually they arrive on the local, just behind the engines. Things might have been a little hectic on BNSF as the cars showed up an extra day late, at the head end of a loaded ethanol unit train. I presume that the crew has to tie down some brakes on cars once they break the train? On flat ground, with a mile long loaded train, how many brakes would normally have to be set?
As many as the TTSI for the territory require.
It depends. I have no idea how BNSF’s operating rules and American regulations work, so I’ll tell you what we would do on CN in Canada.
Our current rules require that handbrakes be applied anytime equipment is left unattended on the main track, the minimum number of handbrakes being determined by the tonnage/grade chart in Rule 112. CN defines “unattended” to mean anytime an employee is not within arm’s length of the cars, so handbrakes would be required in your example.
Before the Lac-Megantic disaster and all the resulting rule changes we were allowed to leave cars unattended without handbrakes as long as there were more than 10 cars, they were left in emergency or full service and vented from a full charge, and were left on a grade of 0.7% or less. Under that rule no handbrakes would be required in your example.
In reality, if you leave a train of properly maintained cars in emergency from a full charge in weather that is not bitterly cold, the air brakes will hold it for days, maybe weeks or months. Applying handbrakes in your example is just a formality to comply with the rule, it is not actually necessary to keep the train from moving.
Bear with me people, this is not off topic.
Over at the Professional Pilots’ Rumor Network (pprune.org), there was a discussion of a twin-engine “heavy” cargo jet (a Boeing “triple 7”) that came near falling-out-of-the-sky by approaching a stall condition, that the crew countered by taking it out of autopilot and descending to pick up speed. They were plenty high enough that they were not at risk of crashing, but they could have crashed if the situation had gotten out-of-hand. They had air traffic control nagging them, “(name of airline), are you able to climb?” as a way of saying, what’s with you g
SD70Dude, why are ten or more cars coupled together considered less likely to roll away than a smaller cut?
I wouldn’t say ‘routinely’ but remember, flying is engineering, not magic. If you get behind the curve you do NOT hesitate getting the flying energy and authority you need.
And let me introduce you to the concept of mandatory noise abatement turns…
If you study the development (and a couple of frankly expedient details within it) of the currently-evolved AB brake, you will understand the finer appalling inherent details in a few respects. In order to optimize ‘general’ operation with just one pipe between cars, a number of decisions have been made over the years that compromise both train-handling and overall safety. Some of these – one very notable one recently involving saving the batteries – apply to commercial ECP systems too.
One might argue that relying on obsolescent, corroded, ungaugeable handbrakes as a critical part of safety procedures is dangerously shortsighted – Euclid certainly and repeatedly does. And so do I. The first problem is that replacing just the ‘parking brake’ functions with power or even ‘application metadata’ wireless connection is
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Thanks . That makes sense. Regarding your “unattended” rule, are they talking about a human being within arm’s length or a locomotive? If it’s just a crew member standing there and the train starts leaving, what can be done other than maybe setting one brake?
Overmod- SPAFs?
Read the account of the wreck where the two CSX buffoons lined an Amtrak train into standing locomotives.
The Government established a mandatory switch-permission form that had to be filled out every time – to prevent mainline switches from being thrown without warning in the path of fast trains. All sorts of dreadful penalties if you didn’t fill it out or handle it correctly or whatever. The buffoons faked it. People died.
Switch Position (A=what?) Form.
“Acknowledgment?”
Switch Position Awareness Form
These came about as a result of an FRA emergency order after the Graniteville accident where a NS crew left a mainline switch lined for the siding, where some loaded cars of chlorine were located. It was an attempt to implement a sort of checklist, to remind crews to leave switches in the correct position.
Probability.
Any car could leak off at any time, but the majority of cars will hold their air brake application for at least several hours.
You only need one working air brake or handbrake to hold 10 cars on a gentle grade, and the probability of all 10 leaking off within a short period of time is very low.
As the number of cars decreases, the probability of all of them leaking off increases. The number of 10 was probably picked because anything more than that requires two handbrakes according to our rules, 9 cars or less can legally be left with only one handbrake.
You put on as many handbrakes as you can, and if that doesn’t stop it I guess you broadcast a warning on the radio.
Regarding a rolling train/cut:
On an engine consist, one can tie on as many brakes as there are are units, plus maybe the leading car.
But if the crewman was standing mid train, he’d never have a shot at more than one brake, right, at each gap? Or would it be two? (Aren’t cars designed so that all the brake wheels always wind up on the same side and end?)
It seems like if the cut were accelerating, it might not be possible to safely access more than one gap before having to throw in the towel. So, one brake.
With the exception of flat cars, there’s no going gap-to-gap ON the cars anymore, right?
I would gently suggest that if the choice were between death and crossing gaps and trying to go over the coal, some safety rules might be honored more in the breach than the observance. Not that it might make any difference once the train had enough momentum to outgas any applied composition shoes faster than they could be applied – if emergency air won’t stop a train on the ex-B&O grades at above 22mph, what earthly chance does a man have, brakestick or not?
Isn’t it amusing that walkways over cars and safe access up to them are forbidden to trainmen, but mandatory for loading and unloading?
Of course the case you’re making is analogous to that crew that had walked the train and was just getting back by the locomotives when the train started to move. I don’t know if you can compel a crew to stay aboard an accelerating cut of cars once “they have failed to assure securement” by checking a suitable number of brakes were applied. (You may be reasonably sure that will be the railroad’s position, although who shares the resulting ‘discipline’ may be less well anticipated.)
Just how heroic a crew would be in that circumstance is an interesting Euclidean argument. I however doubt there is a meaningfully predictive answer to it.
Running car to car and setting hand brakes to stop a runnaway is somewhat possible, but lack of running boards and the long cushion gaps will prevent crossing between cars (unless you are a very good jumper and willing to risk death). A person can cross between covered hoppers because they do have running boards on top that extend into the gaps as the phased out running boards used to have.
I suppose “technically” that’s possible. I think I’ve seen Harold Lloyd and Buster Keaton do it, but in reality it’s probably not going to happen.
I would suggest that in this stated problem that another solution is possible but RRs would balk. On trains that are going to have mainline set outs have a third crewman ( brakeman ?) . Loco would make a minimun service brake application. Brakeman would cut the train and install an air hose ( probably could be passengeer train back up hose ) to the standing train. Brakeman could stand outside the train path and if cars started moving could apply the brakes up to and including emergency.
That way normally the brakeman would remove back up hose after coupling locos back then connect regular hoses. If train picked up cars conductor would have connected additioonal cars and hoses. Then locos would have to pump brake line back up. That would save a lot crew time and train time especially on single track sections. Might save a recrew on extended duty time trains and other trains if blocked.
I don’t think it would happen either.&nbs
No, it doesn’t have to be filled out every time. It isn’t required in signalled territory. (I’m going by what we require which is at least equal to what the EO requires. Other railroads, CSX included, may require more.) That probably contributed to what got those “buffoons” in trouble.
The territory they were in was normally signalled territory. The signal suspension makes it unsignalled or “dark” territory. Because of the suspension it would then be required, but has does happen people who normally work where some rules don’t usually come into play become hazy when they for some reason those rules are required.
Jeff