Where turnouts are concerned, I’m having problems keeping the pilot trucks on the tracks in the ‘R’ position–it’s not just one or two, it’s all of them…I know theres several different sizes, but for bigger equipment, what is, or is there, the best size/style to use?
I’ve incorporated a couple of 90 degree and several 45 degree crossing tracks into my layout design, and for some reason, I can’t figure out why the pilot trucks are jumping the tracks there either…
In both cases, I’ve made my approaches at different speeds to see if there’s a problem with the pilot wheels themselves, but that doesnt appear to be the case… and I’ve used several different steam locos to be sure… (my diesel motive power has no trouble at all)…all the track joints are smooth, no burrs or anything obvious that could cause a hangup…I don’t hear or see anything that would indicate an uneven track surface…but every time I make those crossings with my steamers, I hear the sound of wheels on railroad ties…It’s driving me crazy…if anybody has any ideas, I would appreciate them.
My Riv Northerns were doing this, front truck on the loco and the tender. Wrap the axles with some solder wire, it should provide enough weight to eliminate the problem.
The crossings should not be a problem, especially if you are talking about a newer engine that has flanges that are not huge llike some older engines. You could have a problem with gauge, which if easily checked with a NMRA track gauge, and should be available at your local hobby shop or on the internet for a few bucks.
Some engines, especially larger ones, may have problems going around some switches, such as a 4-8-4 and an Atlas Snap Switch. Sometimes there is a problem with the way the leading and trailing trucks are pivoted and weighted/sprung. You may try gently adjusting so the is a triffle bit more weight on the offending truck, but the first thing to check is the gauge.
Specifically what Brand (Atlas, Kato…) and model (Snap Track, Unitrack…) of track (crossing, switches…) are you working with, and is it code 100, 83 or something else?
You should not be having problems with #6 and larger turnouts with 4-8-4s, although taking them at a scale 100 MPH is not recommended. There is either something wrong with the track or your locomotive(s). Step one, check every wheelset and section of track/turnouts with an NMRA gauge. Step two, get a good strong flashlight and have someone else run the loco thru the turnout SLOW while you watch to see exactly where the wheels are popping off. Next, run your fingernail along the top inside of the inner turnout rail with the turnout thrown, and see if you can feel a pronounced bump where the turnout point rail meets the thru rail. Odds are you can. This needs to be filed down to it is for all practical purposed flat in the vertical plane.
I’m going to jump out on a limb here and say there isn’t enough info given. What size rail (code 100), how old is the loco, etc. Sounds like we are running older locos with deep flanges on code 83 track and flangways on turnouts and crossings aren’t deep enough for the flanges or all the pilot truck wheels are out of gauge. Just an opinion. Ken
With your description of your track and the testing of different loco speeds, I really like the idea of weighting the trucks either by wrapping the axle or by gluing solder or shot to the trck frames. Just a little bounce can throw an unweighted truck truck off the track far enough to miss the rail when it comes down.
To get a better view of what is happening, try using a bare truck from passenger and freight cars…you can nudge them along with a pencil and watch for the problems…a good quatily truck with steel wheels and small flanges should roll through without problems…BDT
TUNOUTS: Champfering (filing an slight angle on the points) may ‘nudge’ the wheel flanges just enough to do the job. You didn’t say what brand of turnouts you are using but - ‘stamped’ points in prefab turnouts can be improved on.
I’m assuming you have checked gage?
CROSSINGS are straight tracks with GAPS in them, (which is causing wheel bounce).
BETTER quality track, adding weight to the wheels, (or both) will be the answer.
WHAT happens when you crawl your engines through the crossing?
It may just be my own limitations in thinking and in observation, but when I have encountered these types of thorny problems, I resort to trials. What I mean is, if the track area is very certainly level, well supported under it, well matched at joins, has full compliance with a gauge, and has no flashing or plastic depths problems in flange paths, then it has to be the loco. So, you must methodically deal with potential, and perennial, track “issues” first. That may mean filing points down to a nanometer thickness…hey, if that makes things run at 99.99%, I’m all for it.
So, you know the track is not the problem…right? It is not dipping under the loco or merely dipping to one side due to insufficient support? It remains level while the locomotive traverses the section? Frogs and flang paths are smooth and clear…they meet the gauge’s requirements.
So, we must turn to the loco and do repeated trials across the spots where it derails and use good light and a keen eye to watch exactly where the truck begins to lift out of the rails. Place a pencil or a needle file with the tip to the rails there. Keep doing the trials until you feel you have the right spot. Remove the locomotive, and check that rail section very carefully for all the caveats I have mentioned.
Now, if the track is eliminated, we can rule it out entirely and address only the locomotive. Remove the front truck and do a few trials…no problems? Then it is the truck or its retention on the model. Wheels are in gauge, and the flanges are in line back to front on each side of the truck when the axles are both pressed to one side of the truck. Sight down their profiles and make sure one of the axles doesn’t have its wheels like this:
<)(======)(=> instead of this: <)(=======)(> You can see that it can still show the flanges in gauge, but both wheels are actually forced to one end of the axle, stil
As mentioned-Check all your wheels, track and turnouts with a gauge. Your just chasing your tail in circles if you don’t do that first. Check ALL your track. Not just where you think the problem is. The problem could be 2’ before the spot your focusing on. THOSE are the ones that drive you crazy. Since you said all your locos are doing it, you’ll probably find some bad spots in your track work.
This is the statement that stands out for me. What brand steam locos are you using? If they’re older style locos with large European style flanges (most commonly old AHM/Rivarossi), and you’re using anything below code 100 rail, the flanges are going to ride on the molded spike heads and flangeways. A derailed lead or trailing truck will produce a similar sound, but the locomotive will not travel very far without completely derailing in that state. If the wheels are making that noise even when the locos aren’t derailed, then you have an flange size/rail height incompatability. Just off the top of my head. [:)]
If you’re running 4-8-4’s or larger, my reccommendation is to use nothing smaller than a #6 turnout on the main line. I have #5’s in my yard, and have little or no trouble with larger steam traversing them. One thing to remember, is that a long-based non-articulated steamer will often need a larger radius than even an Articulated.
Weighting the pilot and trailing trucks with flat pieces of lead on their frames usually helps me. Many of the springs that come on larger locos are relatively soft, and do not hold the trucks down on the tracks very well.
I don’t know whether or not you’re talking about brass steam or the newer plastics, but some locos with a 4-wheel pilot truck come with the truck assembly itself attached to the driver frame, instead of being attached in the center to a screw that goes up between the cylinders. I usually have more trouble with the trucks attached to the frame, as there is no ‘centering’ force coming down and holding the truck to the rails.
And while checking your wheel gauges, also check to see if the frame of the lead truck isn’t possibly rubbing against the inside of the cylinder block, causing the derailments on the curves. You might need to file down the inside of the blocks a little.
Oh, and one other things–if your crossovers are Atlas, you may need to do a little filing on the plastic guardrails. I had problems with my 45-degree crossover lifting pilot trucks, and a little shaving of the high guardrails did the trick.
Adding weight on trucks is a pallative. It may help the symptom, but does nothing for the problem. Also, it is unsprung weight off the drivers and will diminish pulling ability just like adding it to a tender or car. You ought to be able to take a bare truck, as someone else mentioned, and flick it around the whole layout without it derailing. If it doesn’t bounce up, you don’t have to worry about where it comes down.