Hi, my ? is simple I think. If I am using Shinohara turnouts which are powered by the direction of the switch do I still use insulated rail joiners for my block controls or does the switch do this for me? thanks for your input, Joe[*-)]
Yes,you need them for dividing the track into blocks - that’s also the case for most dead frog turnouts as well.
Also, power routing switches can cause shorts if wired without insulated rail joiners. There are some places where you won’t need any, some where you can get away with one, and some where you need two. But you always will be correct if you use two for both diverging tracks.
Good luck
Paul
Joe,
Is your layout DC or DCC? Are the Shinohara turnouts you have the newer DCC friendly versions or are they the earlier versions? (You can tell the difference by looking at the frog. The DCC friendly ones have a small brown plastic insulating insert in the rails on either side of the frog insulating it from the rest of the turnout and other track.
The DCC friendly versions of the turnouts route power around the insulated frog with jumpers on the underside of the turnout so the points do not route power. On a DCC layout no insulating rail joiners would be required on any of the turnout rail joints unless one or more lead into/out of a reverse loop. On a DC layout insulating rail joiners would be needed to isolate the turnout from an adjoining piece of track.
The older versions do direct power with the points so on a DC layout, at least theoretically, both the diverging and through joints would require insulation unless there would be no power getting to the turnout from the other direction. Thus, if a turnout is at one end of a siding that is connected to another track elsewhere, an insulating gap would be required somewhere between the two turnouts. If a turnout leads to a stub track, I don’t believe an insulating gap would be required.
If the older turnouts are used on a DCC layout, insulating gaps in the crotch (one rail of each route) just past the non points end of the frog. Then power feeders are needed on both routes leading away from the frog.
I hope this helps. Good luck!
I am running DC only but my layout plan calls for Atlas curved Custom-Line Supreme and Atlas Custom line switches so I am having trouble rebuilding with new technology. I am doing Model Railroaders Building an HO model railroad with personality from the late 80’s. it’s called THE JEROME AND SOUTHWESTERN
I still use some Shinohara live frog (non-DCC friendly) turnouts on my DCC layout. The way I remember to handle wiring is (to me anyway) pretty simple - ensure you never have a feeder to any rail that comes out of the frog. In most cases I try to gap the frog rails immediately after the frog to lessen the chance of inadvertently causing a short when operating near a turnout lined against me.
I don’t have insulated joiners at the gap locations. I make sure the rail is secure on both sides of the gap and leave a small space to allow for expansion and contraction.
Originally I too left the gaps unfilled. But then one day many months later I had a mysterious short. I eventually traced it to one of those “open” gaps where open was spelled “c-l-o-s-e-d.” They now each have a styrene shim.
which is actually irrelevant. Whether a turnout is going to need gaps/insulated joiners or not depends on the type of turnout, the track layout, and where the electrical feeders are. Whether it is DC, DCC, AC, DCS, TCS, Railcommand or any other form of electricity through the rails a short is a short.
??? Atlas has exactly the same “technology” in their turnouts today as they did back then. Regardless of the brand, the question is if the frog of the turnout is solid connecting the two inside diverging rails or not. When they are a solid piece it is often called a “hot” frog. The Shinohara you mention can be either hot or not depending on the age. If they are newer Shinohara by Walthers then not.
Personally for the Jerome and Southwestern track plan I think you would be much better off using Peco Insulfrog turnouts. They make a curved turnout that is much closer to that Altas. Although if you look around you can find the Atlas at swap meets and on line.
Are you making the layout with the wing extension or just the basic 4x8?
I am making the layout with the wing extension and I have all my track already.Do you know if the Shinohara switches act the same way as the Atlas Custom Line do?
I completely agree with Rob. All I use are Shinohara live frogs and if everything is gapped properly, there isn’t a problem. I also got away from using insulated joiners in the newest expansion sine they are a pain to install and can be hard to disguise. I make sure everything is aligned and secure using spikes and adhesive caulk, then I cut the rail using a cutoff disc. This makes a large enough gap which doesn’t require much else.
Then what am I doing wrong. OK I put the insulated rail joiners where the plan said and when I connect more than one feeder to my alligator clip so my engine runs from one block to another it barley moves but when I do one at a time it runs fine. So what am I doing to cause what I think is a short?
The Jerome & Southwestern has a reversing loop and a wye that both need special reversing section wiring. Have you done that?
The layout also has two passing sidings. Have you isolated those?
When you are using insulated joiners are you doing both rails or just one?
If using single rail block control (single rail common the default Atlas scheme), and using hot frog turnouts, I see the need for a minimum of 20 insulated rail joiners in just the 4x8 part of the layout. I would do more like 25.
EDIT -
Ok, I called up the wiring diagram they originally provided in MR (June 1982, page 63). It is very confusing. They have insulated rail joiners marked with both black and magenta colors. You will need all those. In addition with hot frog turnouts you are going to need even more. Specifically - on the other rail between block 3 & 10, between 3 and 1A, between 1 and 7, and between 7 and 5.
That will mean you need another “common” power feeder (the one they represented by the Y symbol) to blocks 3 and 7.
Do you literally mean that you are connecting 2 feeders to 1 alligator clip?
Dante