Shipping container=Layout room?

Model Railroader General Discussion (Model Railroader)
1

I have been thinking about something and I would apreciate your input. Maybe someone even have seen it before I do not know.

As some know, I’m planning construction of a layout building. Basically a house dedicated solely to the use of my MR. But one thing that keeps bothering me is that I do not know if I will have to move in the future. I’m right now enrolled at the university and my wife is unemployed. Having to move back to Stockholm where I come from might be a both an option and necessary thing. The point is, I can not be sure how long I will live here. I would love to stay the rest of my life but the wife and life might have other plans.

So with this in mind I have been thinking how could make my layout room movable. On a normal transport on the back of a truck. For this it can not be wider then 2.60. Basically a standard shipping container have pretty good specs for this. It’s 2,5 meters wide and the same height. So what I was thinking about was buying two containers, placing them with a wooden building in between so that I get normal doors and so on. The containers are 20 feet long and the room in between would be 15 feet. This would give me a 55 feet long room and approxiametely 8 feet wide. If I insulate the insides and use 24" benchwork I get a pretty perfect layout space according to me. Long enough to have long trains and also wide enough to use wide curves on the turns(36").

If I have to move I can just get a truck and move them to my next house or put them at parents house until I can get them into place. Since they are not true structures I do not even need a building permit for them. And last but not least, price, each container only cost 2000$.

Insulated and properly done inside it would be no different then any other train room in my mind and maintenance and heating would be cheap. It’s also the ultimate in transportable layouts.

So what is your thoughts about this

2

I have 1st hand knowledge of Containers as we use them for transporting gear and operating Oceanographic Labs in. They are great as they are water proof and built like tanks. However a couple of things for you to ponder Magnus

Is it a new container or is it old and rusted? Does it still meet minimal shipping insurance standards?

To ship these they have to be certified seaworthy/roadworthy depending on local and federal laws.

These things get bounced considerably in transit so all structures and scenery should either be shock proofed or removable.

And lastly: Don’t ship on the North Atlantic from November through March and if you do make sure it’s below decks and not on the fore end of the ship. They have come adrift during heavy seas!

Fergie

3

Hello I seen a show a few months back someone in the UK was making apartment’s out of them. They stack a bunch of them up put in some doors and windows and there you go. From the outside it looked ok but on the inside you would never know it was a container. How much would it cost to move ? And will they let stay were you move to ? How about a old mobile home? may be cheeper and less work to move. Frank

4

They’re doing that in Florida too. They use some kind of spray on insulation inside.

This came up about 2 years ago. I think the big negative was they are not wide enough. And by the time you add wiring, insulation, walls, heat, AC, lighting, ventilation. The price got really high, really fast! And when it rains, the sound on the metal roof WILL drive you crazy.

Someone here has a beautiful layout in a movable building, but it was more like a custom made mobile home.

5

Shipping containters have essentially no openings except for the door. No ventilation, no light. They are also not insulated. If you are going to ship it you will have to keep the exterior “clean”. That means no “window” mount air conditioning. Figure on allocating a portion of the interior space for a “mechanical room” to house an electrical breaker panel, and a heater/air conditioner. You will have to hang lighting in the ceiling. To reduce heating/cooling costs you will want to install a stud wall and add insulation inside. Since you probably won’t want to use the full cargo doors to enter and exit the container, you will also have to install a bulkhead in the open end of the container with a door (and maybe window) in it. During normal use the cargo doors will be swung completely open and secured (padlocked) in place. Then for shipping or to secure the container the doors could be swung shut and locked. You want to lock them open so that some ahole doesn’t close and lock them with your operating group IN the container. An alternative would be to open them parallel to the sides an put a small roof (awning) on top to create a “lounge area”.

The bottom line is that your 8 foot wide x 20 foot long area will end up being about 7.25 ft wide and 19 ft long, with a 2x2 or 2x3 utility closet.

Two other considerations, the property has to be accessible by a crane and tractor trailer and the local zoning restrictions/covenants have to permit a storage container to be kept on the property.

Dave H.

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That’s Cliff Powers, whose name on this forum is “maandg”. He’s appeared in MR several times, don’t remeber which issues though…

7

Here in the states we have things called single-wide mobile homes. They 12-14’ wide. 50-80’ long. They already have heat, wiring, lights, insulation, windows. (an entire home) You could gut the inside and make it one big train room. They are on wheels and can be towed like a trailer.
You can buy these used in rough shape where I live for $2000-$5000. Don’t know if you have things like this in Sweden?

8

I have been around, hauled and worked in these shipping containers.

They make very strong storage areas but require ALOT of resources to turn into a habitable room for trains.

Put down the prices, ease of transport etc… and step away from the issue for a moment and consider the following.

If you shut the box in summer, within minutes the sun will make 140 and beyond inside that box. In winter, the constant cold will drain you through the metal like a gigantic heat sink. You would be fighting to make that space liveable.

There ARE people who are building quality safe living housing out of these containers but they cost way too much money right now. However, if done right they can be pretty effective.

Personally for the money involved, I will simply add on to my home, tie into the existing heat/air, electric and other systems and go from there.

And I cannot tell you enough how well they hide flaws or failures into containers deemed unfit for the Shipping. That grey primer paint they love to use really hides the real story and may reveal heartbreak and loss 10 years down the road.

These boxes are strong, but I have seen them overloaded past thier strenghs, abused during loading and other incredible failures in the very short time I played with them.

Finally but not last, if someone was to want to play a prank or joke and lock you inside that box… well… it could be your life. I rather NOT be inside shipping containers.

And the stories of shipping green water on the bridge in the Atlantic during winter when those greybeards roll over the bow is credible and do happen.

A mobile home is a good alternative but check your local laws because these things are not exactly the best second choice. There is a airport down in Hope Arkansas that is FULL of these FEMA trailers rotting since Katrina.

Finally containers are sometimes loaded with different harmful chemicals in it’s life time trace amounts may remain inside such a box and accumulate in your

9

If I had the land to do it on, I would take two containers (8x40 - the long ones) put them down in an L over sheet insulation on a prepared gravel base (with drainage) and build a building in the center just as Magnus plans. The containers would then be insulated on the outside and bermed over, with at least a half-meter of earth on top, and ground cover planted.

The electrical service and HVAC would all be contained in the center building, along with the entrance door. Code might require emergency exits at the ends of the L, which would have to be provided for.

The result would be some REALLY LONG straightaways, wide curves and easy walkaround operation, with the possibility of display operation from a spot in the center where the entire railroad would be visible. How about a two-level folded dogbone with the turnback loops on one side of the center building and the connecting helix on the diagonally opposite side? The mind boggles!

Chuck (who wishes he could do this while modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)

10

Chuck, are we soul mates? What you describe is my thinking precisely. I have something we call a “kallkällare” or cold cellar would be the thing I would translate it to. It is what you described. You basically put earth around it and the temperature gets to be very stable. If I had to move it the earth can be removed. It is at least something to consider, I have access to sand from my local pit(The village owns one together) I would like to ad that the moving aspect is just a maybe, it’s a bonus rather then the most important thing.

I find when I think about it that the track plans would be great, no peninsulas, just good long, really long straight aisles. I’ve e-mailed them about the cost of the 40 footers. I would prefer to have two of them. Where I live I have plenty of space, not absurd amount of but pretty good. I also live in an ol

11

I should ad that I have also considered building the train room in container sized modules. It would have a lot of the advantages and still be easy to move. But the extreme length compared to area gets more expensive. If i Build a normal building, 40 square meters is what I got to do it on without a permit.

Magnus

12

Another thing to think about is are you going to always have enough space to park your containers wherever you move? Will the local homeowners’ association (or whatever you have in Sweden) allow you to put containers in your yard?

It seems technically possible, and intriguing to do, but at the end of the day, it seems like a whole heck of a lot of work and hassle and expense to have a transportable layout. If I were you, I would focus more on making the layout itself transportable. That is, try to design and build it in sections that can be broken apart, carefully packed, moved, and reassembled in another space in another house. If you have to, you could always put it in the garage. And if you don’t have space for the whole thing, just put up parts of it and keep the rest in storage.

Another question you have to ask yourself is how many times in your life do you expect to move the layout? If the answer is less than or equal to 2 (possibly 3), you’re better off just building a somewhat permanent layout indoors, then cutting it, moving it, and rebuilding it in your new location. This kind of thing has been done before, and has even been documented a couple of times in the recent past in MR.

My suspicion is that if you go to the trouble to do the container thing, then 10 years down the road you will want to do a major rebuild or change to your layout, and you’ll be regretting all the time, energy, and money spent on the container method.

Just my [2c]

13

Twenty one years ago when my company moved me to Memphis, I had to leave a very detailed layout with 200 scale ft cliffs. Fortunately I have not moved since but’ I am ready if I have to. All of my key scenes are built on HO standard size 2-1/2X 4Ft modules. If I have to move, at worst I could join a local modular club.

Peter Smith, Memphis

14

How about this?

http://www.gacontainer.com/secureoffice.htm

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Wasn’t it about a month ago that dude from down under posted here about his existing set up with shipping containers?

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My apoligys now for the “that dude from down under” reference. No disrespect intended. Just can’t recall the thread title or authors name.

17

Those where beautiful. I know there are these kind of modules in Sweden to. I’ve been looking at them. But since they are built for normal people who seems to enjoy phones, windows and a lot of other unnecessary stuff they come rather pricey. Then I’m better of just building the thing. [:D]

I’ll be checking such out anyways. Thanks for the link.

Magnus

18

yea if you put them underground or bury them have somebody come out and spray-tarr it to prevent rust even with a good coat of paint they WILL rust and if you put dirt over them, under ground is always 55-60 degrees F but that is UNDERGROUND im not sure if the same principals apply above ground with dirt over them

dont worry about the “harmful” chemicals much because whatever is in there is long gone and when you get them rent a pressure washer and get a bottle of dish soap and wash it out with a broom to scrub the floor then leave the doors open to dry

paint the inside white because it will be brighter in there because more light is reflected off of it

electricity is easy just fasten PVC pipe to the bottom corner along the edge and run your wires through it to where they need to go

19

Think office trailers.A few walls to knock down, usually have 1/2 bath, Lights, wired, a/c, heat. wheels trailer hitch.

CHUCK

20

If you are thinking about the same type of container that my employer uses to ship stuff from Japan to USA, then you should think about:

  • low head room !

  • insulation vs hot/cold weather

  • can you put another door in it? (Where?) Is the structure still sound?

  • is it wide enough to turn the train around?

  • will it stand up to the elements without a mechanic? Indiana has tornadoes and trailer-sized buildings are DEATHTRAPS.

  • are the walls strong enough to hold up the layout, backdrop, &c

This IS a neat idea, and I don’t want to pour cold water all over you without cause, but you should talk to an architect and Civic Code planner before you spend any money on this.

PS - my dream layout room would be decorated on the outside as a caboose !