I shipped a set of Lionel “FA” ABA units to a fellow a couple of months back by UPS Ground and insured them for the sale price.
When they arrived, several damage point we noted: one pilot had fallen off and a horn was broken off the roof of one unit and a hole crreated in the roof.
I have packed and shipped thousands of train items over the years, so i know what is required. They were paakced in the usual cardboard outer carton. The trains themselves were packed inside their original Lionel boxes and in their styrofoam crates. I packed foam pellets around the Lionel boxes (as I always do) to fill the outer box nice and tight.
But, nevertheless, damage occured. When the claims inspector came, he DENIED the damage claim because there was “no visible damage to the outer carton.” He therefore concluded that the items “were not packed sufficiently.”
They were packed better than Lionel packs them at the factory! I added extra foam packing around the Lionel boxes. Still not enough for the claims inspector.
So here I am with an unhappy buyer and a shipper who refuses to do anything about the damage they undoubtedly caused. Naturally, I have offered to refund the buyer’s money plus his shipping costs to return them to me. And if he does, I will be stuck with an FA with a hole in the roof courtesy of the handling of the shipping company (so iIcan never sell them as “new” again)!!
Do any of you have any suggestions on how to proceed with this mess?? I’d sure appreciate hearing from you. Needless to say, I will never use that shipping company again (and I told them so on the phone).
You can appeal the ruling, through UPS. Also, whom did you ship it through? UPS direct, a third party, or your own account? If a third party then get them involved, they will definetly have more persuasion. Good luck.
If you packed them as you say and there is no damage on the outside of the carton, there is no stinking way you could end up with a hole in the roof of one of the engines, meaning it either left that way or it got that way after it was opened. The broken horn and pilot I can see maybe happening with just “rough” service maybe. You can probably repair the pilot and horn easily and possibly repair the roof. It won’t be mint and its as simple as that. You may be able to recoup some of your money by selling them as is, but that makes one sick in the tummy.
My first thought is that the seller changed his mind and was trying to get insurance money to refund his outage. as most sellers will refund but just the sale price not shipping either way. I’m sorry but if it is as you say (and I don’rt doubt you at all) it just sounds fishy to me as if there is no damage to outer box then somethin fishy somewhere.
Unfortunately, since the outer box was not damaged, your claim will most likely continue to be denied.
It’s amazing the damage a broken off or loose part will do inside a shipping box. I had a prewar Flying Yankee shipped to me with the pendulum motor left dangling inside the power car. It swayed back and forth during the shipping process and ended up putting a dime-sized hole in the engine roof.
I would just chalk it up to stuff happens. If this is the first bad outcome after shipping thousands of train items, consider yourself lucky.
AANNDD,how about a fellow who has a set of Lionel “FA” ABA units with a loose pilot, a broken horn, and a hole in the roof… He goes on eBay and buys your good set and tries to “swap” his broken units with yours!!! This crap has been noted to have happened all too often… I recall one fellow who had sold a hudson in good running condition, and received it back after the purchaser had swappend out a burnt motor.[banghead]
… Some sellers only sell “as is” or “no returns”, and state that they will not be responsible for shipping damage…well, I can understand an honest seller’s reasons for trying to protect himself by doing this…[:(]
But, how about the seller who takes pictures of a good unit, and sends you an identical unit that is damaged…[:(!]
Most of the time, I have been treated fairly on eBay, but there are at least ten times where I have been ripped off …
Sadly, the Plasticville jail isn’t big enough to hold all the crooks, and there is only one Barney Fife to catch them.[sigh]
The way your goods were packaged, I doubt that the “train wreck” happened on a UPS truck, sorry to hear of your misfortune…BDT
I personally have never had bad problems with UPS… thats just my experience.
But I have a suggestion, why not take pictures of the box before you ship it (clearly showing the tracking # and lable for identification) that way you have more proof to offer if the package arrives in beaten/torn up condition? I have never done this but I think it would be a good idea.
Grayson, that is a great idea, A minute with a digital camera could save the seller a ton of grief…
And, on the receiving end, I will no longer accept any package that appears damaged unless it is opened and inspected before I sign for it…Sadly, many packages are dropped off, and do not require a signiture…So, you may come home to find a squished box on your doorstep… In this case, I will call UPS or whoever the carrier is before I open the package… AND click, click click with the camera…take pictures of the unopened squished box before it is sent back…
As a side note, I have started receiving trains wrapped separately from the original box. Both items are then shipped in the same carton with padding. That way, the engine, car, etc. cannot move around in the original box during shipping. This would seen to apply to pre and post war mainly.