OK, in my other posts, you have known that I am about to build my second layout.
The problem is the second one will be in a different part of my apartment. I thought about just get a district booster for my existing Prodigy Advanced but that’s still like $200 for a box. I might as well get a second unit and go without all the extension cables and miles of cables around the house. Or you think I should do that?
The list was originally 4 including the new Advanced Squared with 28 functions but they haven’t started shipping yet and so far no indication of a shipping date. So I am now down to 3: Digitrax Empire Set, Lenz Set-90 or the NCE Pro Cab. The problem is, I have 3 Precision Craft E7’s and they have functions upto 14 and none of these are upto 14 yet. Most are only upto 8 or 10. Lenz seems of high quality and NCE is ery similar to Advanced but again, only upto function 12. Digitrax are obviously the most popular choice and I wouldn’t mind wireless as well because the layout will be near the entrance to my apartment and I don’t want people drag and pull down my whole layout on the cab cable!
I just don’t understand…Advanced 2 (squared) is now upto new standards of fn 28 and even the Bachmann’s new one released in UK has Fn28, why aren’t the old horses updated to new NMRA standards yet?!
I am a Digitrax fan, I use their products everyday, but would steer you away from the Empire Builder. This really is the “old horse” of the Digitrax range. The limitation on CV read back is IMO a deal breaker for this unit.
The F28 thing is something that MRC are hammering home right now. Remember that for the longest time they have been well behind the other DCC companies. They seem to be very committed to the DCC market and are making a strong play. MRC has clearly decided to make a strong marketing stand to re-establish themselves in a leadership position. According to an e-mail I got from Digitrax they will support F28 this year, I would expect all the other to as well. What will be curious is if any company manages to provide F28 support in a way that is remotely practical for daily use.
MRC and others seem to be looking far into the future by incoroprating 28 functions into their systems, because 14 functions seems to be the current limit available in any of the sound decoders. And how many sounds can a train make? Some of the ones in the current crop of decoders are ones that you will probably never use.
I think it was coupler slack sound and some other sound I can’t remember, I just re-programmed one…I should remember…but yeah I know, not something you will use al the time but at least you can control it since you already have it…and once again, I think sound in N especialy small layout is a bit of a overkill and overated.
Apparently, there is only one steam engine on the market at the moment that will use all 28 functions…different bells and chuffs etc. I think MRC is bringing out a whole range of sound decoders that will utilise all 28 fns. Just more choice in different bells and horns etc. Anything beyond F4 is purely for sound unless you decide to muck around with operating ditch lights etc. I thought about it when I did a drop-in conversion on a few N Kato modern diesels, but then decide to give up because I think my eyesight worsened from already bad eyesight even since I started modeling in N! And I am only just turned 33!
To be honest, I rarely use F12 and beyond and they don’t get displayed on the cab anyway.
So which one you think it’s a better choice? I am start to lean towards NCE because they have a dedicated decoder for Kato Unitrack switches. Others require diodes and resistors to be added to operate them.
Also check this out! Got to be the coolest one you can get!
I have a Lenz-100 system, and I also bought a Lenz-90 throttle because I thought I would like the large analog speed wheel. I’m glad I started with the Lenz-100, because the 90 throttle is really limited and awkward to use. I think you can still do just about anything, but the number of keystrokes is way higher on the 90 than on the 100. Switching back and forth between engines is awkward, too, because you have to match up the direction toggle and speed wheel to make a smooth handoff.
Sometimes, I run with the 90 just so I don’t completely forget how to use it. I wanted to have a second throttle for another operator, so I guess it serves that purpose, but for a primary throttle I would definitely go with the 100.
I think someone priced these and found out that it’s cheaper to by a System 100 and add a 90 throttle than the other way around.
I’ve been very happy with my Lenz system, by the way. It’s a quality product. I’ve got a small layout, so the tethered throttles don’t bother me at all. I did wire up a control bus with half a dozen jacks around the layout so I can move around, but I don’t need to do that much.
I’m still DC but I would say let someone else be the guinea pig on the PA2. See if there’s any bugs to work out. I thought the 8amp MRC booster was around $139? And the smaller one was under $100.
Even with the 100 cab, does it bother you to have to cycle through everything just to do something? Also does only 2 ‘recall’ bother you at all? It certainly looked like a quality product, no doubt about it, but like you mentioned, having limited buttons on the cab sort of bothers me a bit because then it means you need to ‘cycle’ through menus and things just to get something done rather than just press button like others. I am used to pressing button rather than ‘cycle’ through menus but I suppose I can get used to it because it’s like a mobile phone but might take a long time to switching between engines, operate turnouts etc.
I have about 10 engines on my Lenz-100. (That’s another thing I don’t like about the 90 - only 8 engines in the stack.) I think the 100 will hold 32. Scrolling is quick, and you can always just toggle back to the previous engine with just a keystroke. I don’t operate turnouts with DCC, just the fascia panels, so that’s not a problem.
All the buttons on the Lenz-100 are big, like typewriter keys, not tiny like cell phone buttons. I’ve got large hands, and I appreciate that a lot. I’ve gotten so I can usually operate the throttle by touch alone. The Lenz-100 has a large non-backlit LCD display, which is fine in normal or even dim light, but if you’re operating in the dark, well, you’re really operating in the dark with this throttle.
[#ditto] Awkward to program with or run multiple trains with. The 90 is great for simply controling a single train. Consider it a utility throttle. I almost didn’t buy a 100 and now I am sooooo glad I did.
So that becomes a moot point.
That is not obvious to me. I’ve seen no scientific study that shows market shares of the various systems. In the groups I regularly operate with, it is Lenz (7 layouts including the club), Railcommand (5 layouts), Digitrax (3 layouts including the other club), NCE & Wangro (2 layouts), then one each of EazyDCC, and DC. Of course even these numbers are skewed because these are heavy multi-operator layouts not personal roundy-rounds. On another note, all of the systems you have listed have wireless options. I use the CVP wireless with the Lenz. In fact, I consider the -wire- hanging out of a Digitrax -wireless- throttle to be the worst aspect of their entire line.
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I just don’t understand…Advanced 2 (squared) is now upto new standards of fn 28 and even the Bachmann’s new one released in UK has Fn28, why aren’t the old horses up
Iceman_c27,
The F13 to F28 standards were only adopted just this past summer at the NMRA convention. That’s only 8 months ago. I don’t know what the proper lead time is for something drastic like a system redesign is, but since none of the major DCC players has adopted them yet, I think one can assume that it takes longer than 8 months to more than double the number of functions available on a throttle.
Remember that when Digitrax first offered their most advanced throttle (the DT400), there was only functions F0 to F8…and they put F9 to F12 on it in anticipation that it would go higher. Now, the NMRA is up to F28. This is not an easy fix as even a shift key would not allow access to F25 to F28. Digitrax may have to create a whole new throttle to handle it…which is a big expense.
Lenz hasn’t had a new throttle in ages, they only update the software. I have no idea how they could access F28.
NCE is almost in the same boat as Lenz, although they are in a better position to take advantage due to their larger throttle body and multiline display.
But the single biggest reason why they haven’t gone to F28 immediately? Because there’s nothing out there in DCC that uses 29 functions (MTH doesn’t count). If there’s no desire from the consumer, there’s no need to make one. And the consumers aren’t demanding it because even if the DCC system had 29 functions, you can’t do anything with them. So why bother?
Wow, just did some reading up on Digitrax’s system and all I can say is they are certainly at the forefront of the DCC technology with their true 2-way DCC communications/feedback. But it’s definitely too complicated for this lazy engineer! I think their transponding etc is mainly designed for very large layout with computer controls. may be more suited for clubs with large layout with multiple operators and of course, a computer control system.
I think I am going to rule Digitrax out at this time…small system too little feature and too expensive where as the larger ones are lacking some features that other have at lower price and a little too complicated and if want to fully utilise the tranponding functions, you need a computer…
I like NCE’s throttles. They are very comfortable in my hand. And I can operate all the functions with one hand while throwing turnouts with the other. Thats what sold me. Thats why I didn’t buy the MRC prodigy express…not that you were looking at it anyway…[:)]
If you are thinking about NCE, the Power Cab is a nice starter system. Like the ProCab, it comes with functions F0-F12. If F13-28 is really that important to you, by adding the Smart Booster to the Power Cab you get functions F0-F28. I’ve found that F0-F8 are still the most used and handiest.
In addition to functionality, the Smart Booster also makes the all-in-one command station/booster/throttle Power Cab a true “walk-around” DCC system. All you need to do is to purchase the additional UTP panels, place them along the side of your benchwork where you want them, and daisy-chain them together with the RJ-12 connectors located on the backside of the panel. You can then unplug and plug the Power Cab into any UTP panel located around your layout.
I also vote NCE, they have great products, easy to use throttles, completely wireless throttles and you can upgrade them as needed, the smart booster is a great investment especially if you are using the powercab. Their decoders are rock solid also. Once you use them you’ll be glad you did!
I’m also leaning towards the NCE powercab, seems really interesting at a decent price. But after reading a post in which some one said it was a wasted investment, I am teetering on the edge of getting DCC or not…
Beegle, wasted investment? For the odd one or two folks that have said that DCC is a wasted investment there are hundreds that would say it is the best thing that they ever did. I know several modellers that have not gone DCC for good reason (too many DC locos, too much invested in block control) but I have never actually met anyone that regretted going DCC. By all accounts the NCE is a great system. I can’t imagine that you would be disappointed.