I have been wanting to post this thread for a while so here it goes…
Although I know the biggest rivals in O Guage, Lionel and MTH, are competitors, in a “financial” and “business” sense, but in the hobbiest’s viewpoint I believe it is the opposite.
Unless your a die-hard Lionel or MTH fan, and are loyal to only one brand, not matter how good the other looks, you know that you buy products from both companies, for what suits you.
Watching several MTH videos, including the DCS instruction video and the new “Product Announcement” videos, I have heard the word “competiton” quite a bit.
“This engine beats the competition”
“Unlike others, DCS can do things the competition cant”
In my opinion, I dont think these companies should be competitors. You cant really compete unless you make the same things, and each trying to make their own model better than the other. The only true “model competition” I have scene lately is the UP Heritage SD70ACe’s.
Each company has its own qualities in making things. For example, Lionel might have better sounds that MTH, but MTH might also have better details.
And the biggest reason I dont see the need for competition is the actual attitude of this hobby. Modeling is a peaceful hobby. And $40 million dollar lawsuits dont show much of that… The model train making business isnt like others - you dont compete t
It’s about the bells and whistles. Starbucks or …whatever.
You have a lot of new opportunities out ther looking for ‘toy’ trains, and you need to impress this new audience, as well as your existing namesake. So there is competition, and judging by the variety of new products, including the Lionel PW stuff, and Legacy, there’s a lot of $$$ at stake, especially in this recession, where dollars are tight, and with the remotes being proprietary.
One would be happy to capatilize on the other’s going away.
With that being said, I think competition is very good for business, as well as the consumer. Competition really make you dig deeper to come up with a better product.
Kurt
PS. Grayson, you’re not trying to shake things up are you?
Flash back to 1988. . .Lionel was the only game in town. The trains were good, but somewhat stodgy. The competition from MTH and K-Line “lifted the bar”, improving all trains.
The American automobile manufacturers ignored foreign competition and did not respond until the tidal wave was upon them, and they themselves have been chasing survival ever since. The consumer has benefitted, but certainly not the American labor force.
Friendly competition where each company makes better products and promote their own products can be very beneficial to the hobby.
Unfriendly competition may get some better products, but it also can sour people on the whole thing. It’s kind of like politics, by the time the election comes a large segment of voters says a pox on both your houses and stays home.
At the time, Williams, Weaver, 3rd Rail, and Right of Way Industries produced items for people who had been in the hobby for a good while and wanted more in terms of detail. Right of Way’s CEO made a point of mentioning something like this in an interview with The Toy Train Review by TM. MTH and K-Line focused in improving details in the lower end products (the products for beginers/0-27 modelers).
As far as competitors, since they are targeting the same audience (to a certain degree) they are indeed competitiors. But as far as how the consumers regard them, it varies. It just depends on what you want. As said earlier, if you wnat sound go with Lionel, or if you want detail go for MTH. All that matters in the end is that you get what you want in the model.
There have been many competitors over the years for Lionel, most of the better known names have been mentioned but not all. How about AMT(American Model Trains, mid to late 1940’s), Kris Model Trains(KMT), Atlas O, Industrial Rail.
Competition is good as others have said because it gives variety to the market as well.
Have you noticed that Lionel and Atlas O are both made at the Sanda Kan factory and the two lines rarely have truly overlapping products. The closest they come to overlapping are the ACF Center Flow Cylindrical Hoppers and the 40’ Steel Refrigerator Cars. The Atlas O and Lionel PS2-CD Low-Sided Covered Hoppers are two different interpretations of the same real Covered Hoppers.
Atlas O also gets the old TMCC and RailSounds while Liontech creates new versions.
I think the answer to this question is evident from some comments made by Mike Wolf at the close of the recent, unlamented lawsuit “we don’t like each other.” If that’s not competitors, I don’t know what is :).
Here’s the definition of competition according to Webster:
a:the effort of two or more parties acting independently to secure the business of a third party by offering the most favorable terms
I think competing companies is in our favor, always has been and always will be. If 2 separate companies do not compete for my money then neither will most likeley get anyd from me. I guess I’m not sure what the original post was intending to do, made it sound as if the word “competition” was bad or wrong. If they do not compete then what do they do? And many competitors like each other, I think M.W. just seems to take this too personally.
Bankruptcies. Reorganizations. Facilities closing. Layoffs. Stealing competitors’ employees. Moving manufacturing overseas to reduce costs. Lawsuits over technology espionage. Internet dealers underselling brick and mortar train shops. Lawsuits over patent and technology infringements. Venture capitalists jaded by the past.
Are toy train companies “competitors”? No. They are mortal enemies where only the strong will survive.