Signalling

I know there have been other threads on this but Im not so sure I understand it completely.

First,
What are the different Signal aspects and what do they mean?

Second,
What is the In-cab thing all about?

Third,
Can somone just explain the whole CTC signal system?

Fourth,
How long is a signal block?

Fifth,

If it takes a train a mile or so to stop, is there a warning signal to tell the engineer what the end signal is showing, or how does he know what it shows so he can start stopping his train in time ot be stopped before passing the signal?

Thanks guys maybe you can enlighten me

The various signal aspects differ from RR to RR and could (and have) formed the basis of a book. The cab signals are simply a means of expressing the meaning of lineside signals inside the cab in case of fog, etc. The orginal CTC system operated by pulses like a dial phone sytem. It enabled the dspr to control switches and signals remotely instead of transmitting written orders (via operators) to the train crews. Modern CTC systems run via computers and microwave signals but perform the same function. The length of signal blocks vary widely from 100 or 200 yards at an interlocking plant to many miles between stations in manual block territory Most signal sytems will show red at each end of an occupied block. The next blocks from the occupied block will show yellow. Sometimes there’s a warning of the next block showing yellow by the block before it showing a flashing yellow. The signals would mean: flashing yellow, proceed prepared to pass next signal at medium speed. Yellow, reduce to medium speed prepared to stop short of next signal, red stop or reduce to restricted speed (varies from RR to RR)

Because most engineers know the territory they are running on better than their own living room, they already know where the signals are, and go looking for them.
All railroads have some signal who’s indication is “approach restricted” or “restricted”, both of which mean proceed at restricted speed, (or that railroads prescribed slower speed) prepared to stop short of the next signal.
Some railroads use the position of the lights, three across, three up and down, or three on a slant, others use the color of the light, and flashing that light to indicate the actions the engineer needs to take.

By following that railroads timetable speeds and obeying the indications of the CTC or ABS signals, it is possible to run a larger volume of trains on a given section of track.
A really good dispatcher can get a hot train all the way across his or her division right quick without even talking to crew once.

Ed

Here’s just one of many sites I found by Googling “Signal Aspects” (using the quotes): http://www.trainweb.org/amtrakflorida/signal_apects.htm You’ll note that there are 21 different aspects listed.
www.amdg.ws/Seaboard%20Signals.pdf This site: lists around 24. Checking timetables might even get you more site specific aspects.

Your ultimate resource for current “legal” signal aspects in the US will be the GCOR (western roads) and NORAC (NE roads) rulebooks. The standard Canadian aspects are in the January 2006 issue of Trains.

If you’re interested in the Canadian signaling rules:

http://www.tc.gc.ca/railway/cror/signals.htm

At least we are uniform right across the country [:D]

First there is a ton of info on this web site:
http://www.railway-technical.com/sigind.html

This is a very good first read for a ‘newbie’ regarding signaling, and Automatic Block Signaling (ABS):
http://www.railway-technical.com/sigtxt1.html

So here is my understanding of it:
Track is divided up into blocks which are monitored by block circuits. These blocks are ‘guarded’ by automatic signals. The ABS logic ensures (a) there is a safe spacing between two trains via an empty block, by issuing two red signals in a row, and (b) ensure that train #2 slows down in advance by issuing one or two yellow signals in a row. This is the basic fundamentals of ABS.

ABS functions on its own. It does not need to receive additional instruction from people. However, in the interests of being able to manually send information such as setting up routes, and giving a lagging priority train the opportunity to get ahead of a less priority train, the CTC is the system that lets RR staff do that. Scheduling of trains is just one thing of many things operators can use the CTC for.

The thing about ABS and CTC is that it keeps trains apart. There have been lots of research into finding ways to get more trains on the track, yet keep them safe via advanced signaling methods…so I suggest you read these only after you have read the ‘intro to signals’ stuff first. You will also know that many signal systems of today have many many aspects. This is to accomplish many things including increasing efficiencty, reduce hard braking, notify of possible taking a siding, etc.

Hope this helps! [:)]

I thought the signals listed in the article were a little abbreviated. Now we’re up to 28 aspects…

At least with GCOR and NORAC, plus probably a few other systems, we’re away from the “which railroad are we on?” problem. I haven’t compared NORAC and GCOR aspects, but I suspect they aren’t all that far apart. Red still means STOP (or slow waaaayyyy down).

But I do have a question of my own - I know I’ve seen this somewhere, but I can’t remember the answer - what is the difference between signal heads in a line (vertically) and on opposite sides of the pole? Or should the question be what was the difference?

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(Underscores added only to proper space the “poles”)

I agree that the text is a little ‘compressed’ and that some better explanation could be given…but I guess as long as the loco engineers know full well what they mean that is all that matter.

To answer your question…in Canada two directly over one another means “Stop and Stay”, while when two are arranged diagonally it means “Stop then proceed really slowwwwwww”.

Wow!! Thanks guys! This helps alot more, I read the article in Trains and that is what prompted me to gain a better understanding of signaling. This helps me understand most of it much better. THANKS AGAIN!!!

You might also want to check out www.ctcparts.com

They have a section called “About CTC”. Once you have the basics of signaling down, this article is the best I’ve found on CTC specifically.

Mike

Yes that is a very good site too… I have it book marked, but forgot about it.

I notice on the Amtrak/Septa line (former pensy)
between Philadelphia and Paoli that all the old style
Pensy signals (three diagonal, three hotizontal/
three vertical) have been removed. Have all of these
style signals been removed on the former Pensy system?

Mini, the answers to your questions could probably fill a book. If you really want to know a lot more about signals, the best book currently out there is Railroad Signaling, by Brian Solomon. It goes into the aspects and indications displayed by signals. As always, they may differ from rulebook to rulebook, country to country, and even railroad to railroad. This should be available in a lot of the general-interest bookstores, like Border’s (that’s where mine came from a year or so ago).

Another good book with a lot of answers, probably a bit harder to find, is The Railroad–What It Is, What It Does, by the late John Armstrong. It’s a book about railroads and railroading in general, but will give good definitions of the signals, show examples of where one might run across the different aspects, and will also explain CTC in very readable terms.

For the real old-timers here, the same John Armstrong also wrote a few articles for Trains called “All about Signals”, which were later consolidated into a booklet sold by Kalmbach. That series had a very good explanation of cab signals, among other things.

“CTC Signals”. Somebody might correct me on this, but there are no such animal. CTC is Centralized Traffic Control, which is basically a set of rules by which traffic moves under the control of a dispatcher, using the same signals that you’d find under any other system.

Your fourth and fifth questions are tied together, actually. If a train is supposed to stop at a given signal, the next signal ahead of that will be an “Approach” signal, which tells the crew to be prepared to stop short of the next signal. The length of the block should be (is, in nearly every case) sufficient to permit a safe stop in any conditions.

I’d like to see Mark Hemphill jump in on this, even if he does cut me down for incorrect terminology or whatever.

Tree, in the days of semaphores, different shapes of blades had different

You are right about that Ed me being an engineer I can find the signals on the the routes to Chicago and I have two of the better than I can find stuff in my own house I am greatful that my wife knows where everything is (lol).

Rodney

The signal spaceing on the former bn is aprox 2 miles and on former atsf is aprox 3 miles.

Rodney

on your little scamatic if a signal pole with the one what is offset compaired to them being all in a line from top to bottom… the offset ones are intermidiate signals (maning that the most restricive indication they can display is restricted proseed…at least on csx… ) lot of times you will find a number plate on a high signal mast with the lights layed out like that… now the ones with all the lights in a row would be an absolut signal…(meaning its most restricive indication is STOP)… alot of times they layout you shown are the serechligth type of sigan where thier is only 1 signal head that will show all 3/4 colors… insted of a stop light type of signal where the signal head as 3 or 4 differnt light lenses in each grouping…aka…
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each group that i show is 1 sig

Carl, CSX - I knew it was something like that, I just couldn’t remember what. Thanks for the review. I’m starting to study the NORAC rules, which will include the signals. The tough part is that for the most part (if I do make it to the right seat eventually) I’ll be running in dark territory. Not much chance to practice reading signals there…

I have always been interested in signals and CTC systems. I have the reprint “All About Signals” which was mentioned earlier. It is well worth having, even if it is a bit dated.

The CTC parts website is really good at explaining the operations of CTC. I looked at it last night and it was in depth.

There are some PRR signals still out there. Cshave, you are correct about the signals along the Skyway, but I am not sure I want to venture down there to take shots.

A couple of other locations:

  1. On the old PRR line Chicago - Ft Wayne (unsignaled) there are approach signals for the Hanna, In crossing of the ex C&O line, currently operated by a short line.
  2. The line south from Goshen thru Warsaw and Marion also has PRR signals, at least north of Warsaw. It is a CTC operation and the signals coming out of the sidings are dwarf…pretty neat.

Ironically, that line was ex NYC, with PRR signals! Go figure.

ed

I know its a bit of duplication in another similiar thread of discussion, but in case some are reading one thread and not another…

…Does anyone know of a web site that actually lists the latest Rules, Aspects, and Indications for GCOR?? I have found several sites that talk about GCOR but non have the actual rules posted online. This includes: http://www.railroadcontrols.com/gcor/

The same applies to UCOR too, if anyone knows of and up-to-date web sites!

Thanks in advance! [:)]