I live near the Los Angeles to San Diego main line. In my area, most of the automobile crossings have posted signs indicating “no train horns”, and usually the trains go silently through the crossings. However, almost nightly, a train will travel the corridor, and sound the traditional two longs, a short, and a long at the crossings, apparently disregarding the current protocols in place. Is there a good reason for this, or is the engineer just not paying attention to his orders?
Most likely the engineer is observing some driver that isn’t paying attention to the appropriate traffic control signs for the crossings.
I know the corridor well (I very well may have been one of the team that placed most of the crossings in question.). The excessive number of trespassers and stupid motorists has always been a problem. The whistle boards for the no-train-horn-rule (which I hate with a passion[:-,]) are posted. The locomotive engineer most likely had good cause to whistle.
There are times in the “quiet zones” where rules may require a train to sound the horn. A quiet zone isn’t absolute.
Jeff
These are all good reasons. But, last night, at 2 AM, crossing arms down, lights flashing, bells ringing, not a car in sight, the freight engineer saw fit to do the whole routine with his horn. Maybe he’s just practicing.
The golden hour for drunks - driving & walking.
Your vantage point is not the vantage point of the engineer.
Most people here seem to think that the engineer’s horn-sounding falls within acceptable guidelines. Normally, I’d agree that they should be given the benefit of the doubt. But this sounds like one train, possibly one crew, doing its thing. If it’s consistent, and if it can be shown that it’s one person doing this, it should be brought to the attention of the railroad–and hope that they have a reasonable discussion to find out what’s going on, whether it’s an issue with the location or the engineer telling his wife he’ll be home soon, or whatever. It sounds to me like the intent of the quiet zone is being compromised.
In case of doubt - the safe course must be taken.
Could be he’s upset that he’s on the graveyard shift and figures if he can’t sleep, neither will anyone else…
That said, he does have “safe course” to fall back on if challenged. We all strive to take the safe course, but as always, there are ways to “work to rule” and abuse the system in the process. A supervisor in the weeds would probably know in short order.
Or, we can hope, it’s for a purely legitimate (if annoying) reason, many of which have been mentioned.
Notifying wife: Reminds me of a situation in Detroit in the 60’s where someone wrote to the paper (Free Press) that they seemed to hear a siren about the same time every day. The paper investigated and found that an ambulance crew would visit on crewmember’s home each morning for coffee. Said home was a short distance from a freeway exit, and the driver would hit the siren as they hit the exit, warning the wife that they were on their way…
Two more good posts. I moved into this area from LA, a bonus was being near the RR tracks and to be able to watch the passing parade of trains. So, I shouldn’t be complaining. Thanks folks.
Better to be safe than sorry.
On the territory where I run, a quiet zone has been established for a major road crossing within the past couple of months. I’ve been blowing for that crossing for 34 years and just can’t get it in my head not to! Approaching the whistle posts (they’re still in place), I start saying, out loud “don’t blow” and then watch my conductor crack up as my right hand instictively reaches up and commences to blow anyway! Old habits are hard to break.
I watched a neighborhood in west Denver that had the “quiet zone” established. This was on the UP main line with high speed double stacks and fast freights. The secret of their success was DOUBLE CROSSING GATES making it impossible for any vehicle to run around gates to cross ahead of a train. A simple fix that should be enforced at every grade crossing in the nation. In Europe, they have frequent trains running. In heavy traffic areas, they have a crossing guard and double sliding gates that block the tracks completely, preventing both vehicles and people from trying to cross in front of an oncoming train.
I suspect that all of the quiet zone crossings on the LOSSAN corridor have the double crossing gates. An example is where Red Hill crosses the line in Tustin, where there is a seperate set of gates for the pedestrians.
I know that with quiet crossings, the engineer has the prerogative to blow the horn if there is a reason to do so. I had always assumed that the reason had to be something unusual that adds danger and calls for the extra warning of the horn. But it has been suggested here that the engineer simply has the prerogative to blow the horn if he thinks that is safer than not blowing it.
I would think that would be a rule violation. I know there is the rule to take the safest course when in question, but surely this has limits. If the speed limit is 50, can you run at 30 because that is safer? What if the engineer stopped his train before each crossing? That would be safer yet.
So I would be surprised if the “safest course” rule allows railroads to simply override the principle of the quiet crossing.
Proper term is four quadrant gates. (Barrier gates are a newer version of this.)
Part of the issue with QZ’s is the site assessment team that determines minimum requirements for QZ’s is made up principally of non-railroaders that are more into a cheap fix than a safer x-ing. Politicians are trying to make rules on QZ’s less expensive than the current costs that they claim are excessive (for things like 4-quadrant gates or barrier gates, median dividers and raised curbs)…They want the benefits with immediate gratification without paying for the safety infrastructure.
Three of the eleven quiet zones in Colorado are all clustered in Arvada which is what dMikee saw.
Yes, note the part that states “sole judgement”/
From the GCOR Rulebook used by BNSF, UP and a lot of other railroads.
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5.8.4 Whistle Quiet Zone
Within designated whistle quiet zones, whistle signal (7) must not be sounded approaching public cro
Used to live in Carlsbad. Lots of bars there. Right next to the track. Lots of open space next to the rail for people to walk along. We heard lots of horn blowing not just at crossings. Also, they often blew for the station stops.
Edblysard,
you put together what I believe is a flawless explanation for whistling through “quiet zones.”
Adding 2 more explanations, I submit:
When working short of your body’s need for rest, distinguishing a whistle post from one in a quiet zone, HEY!, your brain says that’s a whistle post, whistle!
Or, you’re zoned…the next train handling problem,…how to encounter it? Whistle post…obey it.
Or,…a person or vehicle is way too close, will it stop, might it?
The rule says (When in doubt, the safe course must be taken), would it be safer to stay silent?..or sound your M-5, your S-5 or your K5-LA?
When ypu decide the safe course is:
That judgement lives.