I don’t think you and the forum are on the same page here, a slight communication breakdown.
We need to be clear about the size of the ROOM, and the desired size of the LAYOUT.
Are you saying that you want a small layout in a 14x20 ROOM? Your first post mentioned a 10x12 LAYOUT.
Why can’t you build freestanding, say, 2’ x 4’ tables (modules) and string them together around the room (securing them together of course), making the dimensions of the layout essentially 14x20?
Why do you want or need a layout that’s significantly smaller than the room size?
Smart to minimize cures to avoid derailments and other issues. Foam is far easier to apply squares than I thought. Once I designed a layout on a software tool, going to foam was shockingly easy.
I’m thinking about making some 2’ x 8’ modules to go around the room. 26" curves would work. But even then, I feel like staging would then take up the one side. So does making a 14x20 layout make a difference compared to a 10 x 12 layout? Does the larger layout just becoming too much to operate by one person?
And keeping a layout 10x12 while doing the same goals of a 14x20 means the boss doesn’t freak out as much! Haha!!!
I’m also thinking the Wingate, IN trackplan is neat, but I’d prefer to make it with Unitrack. I’m just not sure if I could make it modern era or even a 1990’s Conrail.
Outsailing, respectfully, do you understand what I and others are suggesting?
That you be inside the layout, not walking around the outside of it?
Guess what, if you build a 10 x 12 layout in the middle of the floor, your longest possible main line loop will be about 40’ and you will build 120 sq ft of layout surface.
BUT, if you build a 2’ deep around the room layout 14 x 20 your mainline loop will be 65’ or more, and guess what, you will still only build 120 sq ft of layout surface.
Call me a layout snob, but I would never build a published track plan…
And, about curves, why only 26" radius? with the 2’ deep around the room design, they could easily be 30" or more.
AND, as others have commented, curves look better from the inside.
I am a radius snob, I would not build a layout to represent a modern railroad with anything less than 36" radius.
You also have me interested in your comments about finishing your space. I know nothing about Illinois, but I know a lot about building.
Generally it is local county or city government who administer building codes, not state government, so check with your local government.
So does making a 14x20 layout make a difference compared to a 10 x 12 layout?
Yes. It makes a huge difference.
Does the larger layout just becoming too much to operate by one person?
No. Complexity makes a layout harder to operate, not size. For example, your HOG trackplan now is a simple loop. Keeping it exactly the same, but merely adding longer straight portions in between the 4 curves simply increases the main line run. How much harder is it to operate, in this case watch, a train over an extra 25 linear feet? That extra straight track would make a huge difference in realism, IMO (and just about everybody else’s opinion). And that extra 25 feet of track would cost less than 50 bucks, probably less than 75 bucks including lumber and roadbed.
You could have longer staging tracks too, depending upon where you put them.
If you change the layout concept, which you might, that change will determine how hard it is to operate, not the size.
And keeping a layout 10x12 while doing the same goals of a 14x20 means the boss doesn’t freak out as much! Haha!!!
Keeping the boss happy is always a consideration, but that 10x12 creates an outer walkway around the layout that makes the space useless. Around the room tables can be used to store
So a lineup of trains going either directions, with a local working the branch line. But it doesn’t really talk about the size. I see how you would operate from the inside.
Whats a good benchwork height? I’ve been making mine with 48” legs, but at 6’1” I feel I’m a little tall for the layout
Mike and others have the right idea. Do not build an island layout; you will get much less layout and run distance for the space you have. Go around the room for sure. Of course it’s your layout but at least you were warned.
As for height, I used to be 6’ tall but have shrunk as most do as they get older. But 50 to 52 inches elevation above the floor is a good range to shoot for
As for books, they are useful for getting idea’s from but I’ve never built a layout from a book or published track plan. I understand why people might, especially if they don’t have the knack for designing their own, or even modifying someone elses plan. If you don’t have much or any layout planning experience then look at lots of track plans and layout articles - they will help you get an idea what is possible in a space.
And speaking of books, I recommend John Armstrongs “Track Planning for Realistic Operation”. It discusses real track elements, minimums and standards, easements, etc. I found it very accessible and started reading it in my college years. (About the only concept JA pushed that didn’t work for me was his “squares” concept. But that didn’t hold me back.
As for curves, go with the largest you can fit. As always it’s a given vs. druters situation. I wanted widest possible curves but also a good long mainline run with fairly long sidings. In the limited space I could afford, it means my curve minimums are 32 inches but I have limited the used of those 32 inch curves and made as many mainline curves larger as I could, ranging from in the 33 to 43
“I did a nolix in a 10x18’ room with 32” minimum curves but the separation for decks (right side) was 8.5 inches, 7.5 above the rails on the bottom level.
This was tight but servicable but not great but kept my grade to 2.9% climbing from staging to the top level. I think if I could add 4 inches to provide a foot of clearance, that would be decent for a staging yard. A scenic’d lower deck would benefit from more clearance."
So unpacking what I did say, a scenic’d lower deck would benefit from a vertical clearance of more than 12 inches. Cheers.
I drew the Gauley Jct plan from 48 top notch plans. It appears the turnouts aren’t to any sort of scale and when you start drawing curves the layout space is quickly consumed.
i spaced the outside main 6" from each wall, with 28" radius curves. if I go 14’ for the layout length I get 100" of straight track. if I want to add a passing siding I figure I’d lose another 20" for the return curves for an 80" track length.
I did some tests on my layout last night. A good size train to me is a diesel and 10 cars or a passenger engine and 3 cars for commuter service. 7’ for the freight and just under 4’ commuter.
agree with the center operation area/around the walls 2’x8’ benchwork module sections.
I just don’t see doing a penninsul plan. Maybe it’s time to start tearing down the HoG and start building benchwork.
Someone (probably John Armstrong) showed that a lazy G shape gets the most railroad in a given space. What makes that work, even with large radius curves, is that not all of the benchwork needs to be a uniform 2’ wide. You may need wider for a yard, but at the same time, if you have a section that is just some track running through scenery, you can use half that width. By narrowing the adjacent benchwork, you can maintain a decent aisle width AND fit a turnback curve.
Even more efficient use of the space - stack turnback curves on top of one another. Incorporate staging in the loops, either by making them even wider if possible, or using Armstrong’s reverted loop concept.
Believe me, it’s a massive leap. After years of building island layouts, the largest of which was a 3x6 N scale (I had room for a 6x10 HO, even drew a plan, by my Mom would never let me build it. 4x8 was as big as I was able to build, but 3x6 in N is actually more space than 4x8 in HO), it was hard moving beyond a basic around the walls. At least that was better than a square island.
I read track planning book after track planning book before it finally clicked. I also had a pretty good idea of how I wanted to build my ‘ultimate’ layout, but the house I edned up buying thwarted that, and it took a few iterations to come up with what I have as a basis now. More or less a clockwise spiral with slight reversal at the end (curves back the opposite way). I’m still string at it trying to figure if there is some other way to arrange things that allows a longer mainline run and still keeps wide aisles. Crunch time is coming, basement demo and wall and floor prep is nearly done (should be done this week), then it’s time to plan where the new walls go, besides the obvious around the perimeter. Then I’mm be committed. Scary, in a way.
If your layout will be 14 x 20, subtracting 4 feet for 2’ deep tables on each side leaves a 10’ pit. A 2 x 14 foot stub peninsula coming out from one of the 14 foot ends wall allows for really long stub-ended staging peninsula with generous 4 foot aisles on each side. You could make two staging yards side by side in a 2 foot width. One for east bound trains, one for westbound trains. There would be some scenic challenges where the yard lead(s) meet the mainline but it could be worked out.
Or, as others have shown, you could have a walk-in design with the mainline doubling back on itself.
Both types tend to call for different benchwork shapes, so don’t start building the benchwork until you’ve committed to a plan.
The table modules would be more forgiving if you changed the track plan slightly.
Four foot wide ailses would still be generous enough to access any type of household item stored under the benchwork, as might be needed to keep the boss happy.