Small layouts in July MRR ... Hmm ... [Spoiler Alert]

Larry

Exactly !

My layout ran for years with little scenery and GUESS What? It ran just fine!

I have been holding OPERATIONS ! Sessions every 2 weeks since 2002.

As for tearing up the layout - YEP! - I have done that - BUT!

With 2500 sq ft -

I can tear a lot up and we could still keep running! :wink:

OH! BTW !

Don’t forget to put the exclimation point after the word OPERATIONS!

If we have no exclimation Point then the word OPERATIONS needs a ? after it to denote everyone else!

We don’t want to get it mixed up with the others that think that a Model Railroad is just for Scenery and Round Round! :wink:

BOB H - Clarion, PA

Excellent point.

Which is why spaghetti bowl layouts also look unrealistic as well as operate that way.

Dang it! I was looking at that plan this morning and was wondering how I could build an addition onto it to fit my slightly larger space.

I do know that after having an around the walls layout, I want to return to more of a roundy-round. I am one that likes to watch them run, but I also like a little switching. More fun for this lone-wolf!

I guess I’m just old school …

Here’s a serious question for the serious operators. If things like model building and scenary is so unneccessary, and even track laying is a chore, why build a layout at all? I mean think about it. With current computer technology you can simulate any railroad in the world. By networking with other operators you could run visually realistic on the monitor, with someone acting as dispatcher just like they do on the prototype. A massively online railroad game.

As for me, while I enjoy operations, I get most enjoyment from structure building. So my layout designs somewhat reflect that. Which I think is a critical point when it comes to why so many small layouts are not “proper.” They are an exercise in compromise between scenary, structures, operations, and spousal room limits. And to be honest, I think too much attention to the prototype is heavily limiting. If I built my hometown for example, it would be operationally boring, yet at the same time there are many who would tell me the track layout is not realistic.

jim

My personal situation is that while I like operations and the realism a layout conveys, I like to be able to also sit back and watch them run. I changed my former point to point layout into a dogbone plan, by adding a turnback loop at each end, just to be able to watch a train run continuously. Having done that, the tight turnback loops spoil the realistic appearence of the scene.

There is not much to do about it other than compromise. I sceniced one loop as an abandoned spur heading in between two buildings, and the other loop serves as a load-out balloon track for an aggregate yard. The long stretch of benchwork where two tracks run near parallel to each other was arranged and sceniced in such a way as to make one track look like a class I mainline, and the other look like a class III short line, a little more curvy, instead of just having two tracks of the same nature running parallel to each other.

I think the OP was saying that with some minor modifications to the plans, the operators could be more satisfied.

I would say that making a layout operate more realistically will probably also make it look more realistic, and thereby make it look better overall; which would enhance the enjoyment of watching the trains run. JMO.

Jim

Obviously you are NOT of the type that really enjoy OPERATIONS!

While we may state that we don’t enjoy the building and Scenery - most do just not as much as OPERATIONS!

Those that state they like building Doramas and Scenery are just as much a Modeler as any of us OPERATIONS! types but we enjoy being with a group and putting the Layout (whether our own or someone elses Layout) thru its paces and seeing it come to life - so to speak!

Others enjoy being by themselves and that is there problem!

I want to be part of a team of Operators that make the Model Railroad emulate the Real thing in as far as the Layout Owner has decided to go!

While it can NEVER be the real thing - it is as cloas as I or others can get without going to work for one!

In our I-80 OPs Group we have many types!

Some that feel OPERATIONS! is as WHERE & WHEN Do we Go!

Others are just happy to run on a layout once in a while - while building their own Layout for OPERATIONS!

Still Others do not have a Layout at all - but really enjoy the friendship of the Group and enjoy the 3D Game of OPERATIONS!

And there are Still Others that could care less if they attend an OPs Session or not! And these types are the OPERATIONS? (in which their response is WHY? do I have to do operations).

This Last bunch are the ones that drift in and out of the Hobby and the ones that seem to have the most to say about why the others like us, that OPERATIONS! is the most improtant thing in Model railroading, shouldn’t think this way!

It seems too many should be working on their Layouts or actually build one instead of being on the many other Forums giving advice when they don’t even have a layout or never will!

But then it take all types to make the World - doesn’t it! :wink:

BOB H - Clarion, PA

Sorry, but I can´t help it - I have to add my [2c] to it.

Each one of us has a different reason for being in this hobby. We have builders, collectors, operators, rail fans - there is room for just any craze one can think of in this hobby. It is as colorful as mankind, and I am thankful for it. It´s the icing on top of the cake, the spice in the soup or the mustard on the hot dog.

There is one thing I find rather detrimental to our hobby - it´s the “us vs. them” attitude which is often displayed. Intolerance never has led to anywhere positive. Whenever I read the phrase “serious operator” or serious model railroader, it´s the attempt to look down on people, who may not have the skills or the knowledge those persons have. Again, that does not lead anywhere other than fruitless segregation.

Anyhow, how can someone be a serious operator without getting up very early in the morning, when the rest of the world is still asleep, just to run the morning milk train?

[(-D]

Ulrich,There are serious operators that is far above my modest approach.They may use time tables and train orders to train movement govern by CTC and dispatcher.

IMHO the only “us vs. them” is a mind set since many is turned off by the simplest operation plan or as some puts it-operation is to much like work yet,they have no real clue on how relaxing simple operation can be.

As far as a milk train those runs was usually held down by employees with lots of seniority.

I suppose that having a 12 hour long OPERATIONS! Session would then be considered Crazy?

I have hosted 7 of them so far on my Layout and #8 is in the planning stages!

When I put out the e-mail for one of these OPTUDs (OP Till U Drop) I get over 100 replies from some as 3 hours drive times away!

And the Ages range from 7 & 10 years olds to those in their 80s

Unfortunately I can only handle 25 Operators at one time !

So I break up the Session into 3 - 4 Hour long groups.

Way too many want to stay and run all 12 hours!

So there must be more than a few of us that like OPERATIONS! - over the other parts of the layout building process! :wink:

BOB H - Clarion, PA

Bob,

I tend to enjoy multiple aspects of the hobby, operations included, though perhaps the little three car trains my layout will support don’t amount to much in contrast to serious operators. And I’ve tried to include ops thoughts in every layout I’ve built over the years from the time I first read Chubb’s “Brakeman on the Yellow Extra” in MR years ago. But it hasn’t been my sole goal, and the limitations of time, money, and space often create compromises that seem to annoy serious operators. But if I may, and in hopes that we can all come to the same side, I’d like to point out some things that create the impression of “non operators not welcome here.”

First I’d like to address these quotes if I may. The first statement pretty much says who doesn’t go into group operations has a problem. Why would you assume that others have a “problem” just because they get their entertainment differently.

Then you seem to assume that anyone who is not a serious operator isn’t in the hobby for long. I don’t know, been modeling railroading since 1972.

Next you state that non operators don’t build layouts and shouldn’t be on the forums. I thought we all had something to contribute, including those who research and provide creative thoughts.

In this one post, you use the term "OPE

I think the C&O interchange connects to the rest of the layout awkwardly. ‘Working’ the interchange would require blocking the tunnel and a staging track. The same issue would come up if you wanted to work the staging. So unless one of the yards doesn’t see much traffic, the tunnel entrance will become a bottleneck.

A couple other comments: It seems unrealistic to have a yard lead go into a tunnel. Also, I like the idea of ‘scenic tracks’ to fit more train in the same space (connecting them to the switches would make them shorter) but again, idk if it is realistic to have them in. It looks like only the C&O would use them since they would be connected on the C&O side right?

It would be simply because of the diesel fumes or smoke from a steam engine…

Great article that…

As far as space…While I know Industrial Switching Layouts(ISL for short) isn’t everybody’s cup of tea I do manage to operate my 1’ x10’ ISL as prototypically as possible.

BTW… I been annoying “serious operators” for years since the majority feels you need a Godzilla size basement layout with all the needed trimmings for realistic operation.

They seem to forget a lot of real railroading takes place in industrialized areas…[(-D]

jmbjmb

If one is doing operations! then they are partaking of everything model Railroading has to offer!

Size does NOT make any difference!

I have run on a small bed room N Scale layout and spent 3 hours just switching the main yard!

I have run on layouts in excess of 2900 sq ft and had fun too - but the problem with the larger layouts is the operations! seem to geared more towards Thru Trains instead of Local Switching!

I much prefer to do Local Switching or work the Yards

as I am much less excited about running Thru trains!

And (there I did not scream just for you - if the others leave because of the all Caps then there will be less arguments) !

BOB H - Clarion, PA

Interesting discussion. Sounds like there are two kinds of operators in this group. I definitely belong to the “light operations” side and one thing that helped is when I started making a time table. That drove me to add a Freight track to a terminus station, relocate a run around and change the arrangement in the yard a little bit.

I find going back and forth between operations-track work-electrical-software keeps me from being bored and therefore also keeps me from buying new engines … Save money!

NP.