Most pictures we see in MR and other publications of HO or larger layouts are missing smoke and wisps of steam coming out the steam engines. Even the early Diesels should have some exhaust showing when under load.
Now to the question. Why are we using sixty year old smoke technology??
The smoke generators that are available today are not practical for use on most layouts since they generate an oil type of film on the engine and cannot give a dark smoke color to simulate coal or oil fired steam engines. Diesels also need a dark color to look correct. Five years ago, we were content to run without sound and now that sound has become available and easy to use, it would be nice to see some other effects to add to the show.
Is it just me, or is this a large void in the Model Railroading experience?
The photo shop pictures look nice but when you are running a club layout or watching an open house operation, the models look sterile and need smoke and steam for real animation effects.
For those into smoke, MTH has raised the bar on their K4s. The technology makes for a pretty impressive display of realism. Even so, I’ll never have a smoking unit on my layout - unless it’s wood burning. [:)]
There are certain aspects of railroading that aren’t practical on a small scale. If you think maintainance is a pain in the rump now, try adding smoke and soot and water to that formula. No thanks. I’ll just leave it up to my imagination and to the imagination of those view the layout. Besides, the health issues that would go along with the things previously mentioned wouldn’t be worth it…
I hate to point this out – BUT if you have one of those “wives”, just wait 'til you have your steam locos pouring out black coal smoke (don’t I wish), and your diesels producing that typical Diesel exhaust smell…
Black smoke is the result of incomplete combustion of hydrocarbons. It’s typically full of all kinds of nasty stuff that you don’t want floating around in your house if you can help it.
All the smoke generators I know of work on vaporization rather than combustion, as its much safer and much less of a hazard to your health.
I guess you could try ultrasonic misters produce a fog like mist cloud from distilled water? I was going to use mine at the base of a small waterfall. Spencers gifts sell these. And they are commonly available on the web. Maybe a form of incense sticks?
I think the main problem is finding a substance that vaporates a readily low temp that is safe, non-toxic, cheap to produce, low power, and reliable.
There’s the Hornby A4 Seagull which is LIVE STEAM HO. You get steam and oil smells and it’s real!
Other than that, Tom is right. The MTH K4 does set the standard for HO “steam” smoke.
Real exhaust is full of nasty stuff too. Hence the air pollution, acid rain, and grey building problems.
Speak for yourself. I (and many others) have not been content without sound since 1970 (and command control since 1979).
How would those pictures look with a nice prototypical haze hanging over everthing. Our layout was next to the three rail toy train exhibit at a GATS once. They all ran their smoke units on full blast, and there was a nasty haze over our layout the entire show. While I would love to have an Alco PA belch black on acceleration once a year for a photo op, I don’t think I would really run it that way all the time. I’ll still take sterile over smog.
As others have replied, no smoke for me, thanks. Houses have enough problems, especially in northern climes, without introducing air wicks, fabric de-scenters, and toy locomotive crud.
What I did, as a “railroad” concession, was to actually use a bit of left-over creosote oil on my scratch-built trestle. Aaaaahhhhhhhh.
The MTH K4 is very realistic but still uses the oil based smoke method that leaves an oil based film all over the engine and layout. I have the # 1 scale MTH models and they are great looking, but they put out so much residue that I have resolved to shutting them off except for demostrations only.
It probably is not possible, but I was referring to a new technology for simulating smoke and steam that would not cause problems.
The Hornby live steam is about as close to real as possible, but it requires an isolated track for it to operated on.
It’s all a moot point! When the anti-smoking Nazi’s finally outlaw smoking in our own homes, I’m sure model railroad smoke generators won’t get special dispensation from the powers that be.
(in case you are wondering I’m a life long non-smoker)
And let’s not forget to take sides in the upcoming debate about Trans Fats, now that New York City has put all its restaurants on notice that the political establishment knows what’s best for us, and any food that doesn’t taste like it came from a hospital commissary had better watch out.
I can live without smoke, though. I was at the big Springfield show last winter, and the MTH smokers were really fouling the air. I stayed away from their booth, and the surrounding vendors, for just that reason.
Now, when I was a kid 50 years ago, I remember dropping a little white solid pill down the smokestack of my Lionel. It’s been a while, but I don’t remember that smelling quite as bad as today’s “modern” oil-burning smoke units. Anyone else remember those little white pills?
I’ve got an idea of how it could be done to avoid the oily haze issues, but I don’t think the technology is quite there yet.
Basically, what is needed is a miniature hologram projector. It would have a variety of smoke images programmed into it. Driven by a signal from the onboard decoder, it would project the smoke trail into the air just above and behind the stack, with the images hanging in thin air, running like a film to correctly represent the appropriate plume.
Now it’s up to the tech/engineering geeks to “make it so”!
I like your idea, but the cost probably rules out micro-holigram technology… Maybe NASA or some agency could fund us that $40 M it would take to get the program going so the space shuttle or space station personnel could have a hobby.
I bought an Athern Challenger for me - and the 2 Seuthe smoke units for the grandkids (alright - they were for me too!). They work sporadicaly - I have had to remove & reinstall then several times. I don’t see them making enough smoke to be a problem unless they were run an hour ot two a day! Just wish they would work when you want them to without remove/reinstalling.[:(]
I’ve got an idea of how it could be done to avoid the oily haze issues, but I don’t think the technology is quite there yet.
Basically, what is needed is a miniature holgram projector. It would have a variety of smoke images programmed into it. Driven by a signal from the onboard decoder, it would project the smoke trail into the air just above and behind the stack, with the images hanging in thin air, running like a film to correctly represent the appropriate plume.
Now it’s up to the tech/engineering geeks to “make it so”!
Then CAZEPHYR wrote:
I like your idea, but the cost probably rules out micro-holigram technology… Maybe NASA or some agency could fund us that $40 M it would take to get the program going so the space shuttle or space station personnel could have a hobby.
Hi CAZEPHYR,
Well, you never know. Here at the University of Illinois, there’s lots of unbelieveable stuff going on. Heck, they even invented part of the internet here (not wanting to start an argument or anything, [:)] ) . It just so happens that today is the 50th anniversary of John Bardeen, a longtime professor here at UIUC, being awarded the Nobel Prize for inventing the transistor (along with William Shockley and Walter Brattain.) In the small world departmen, my adviser, Lillian Hoddeson, wrote the history of Bardeen’s science. We’ve come a long way, electronically speaking, in model railroading in 50 years, largely because of the transis
Ethylene Glycol and Propylene Glycol are very common smoke fluids. Fisher Scientific sells a 0.5 liter bottle of Ethylene Glycol for $13.95. A bottle that size will last you years and is a small fraction of the cost per liter compared to buying the stuff from the hobby industry.
The only problem is Fisher Scientific and similar companies is will not sell their products to the general public, even if it is a relatively harmless chemical like Ethylene Glycol (just don’t drink it). You must have an established lab.
When my wife worked in a laboratory, I had her order a half liter of Ethylene Glycol for me. It worked just like the stuff you get from the hobby shop. If you know someone who works in a lab or for a company that deals with chemicals, see if they can get it for you.