Because I have 5 kids, ages 17 to 4 1/2. [;)]
I have lots of experience.
Thanks JamesP, and may I point out the, where as in the USA, 3 foot gauge was the dominant, in eastern Canada/Ontario, about 95 to 99 percent of all narrow gauge was 42" Gauge. In the Western area of Canada, 3 foot was more popular. I would very much like to model narrow gauge, as, yes there are perks, but I have always liked narrow gauge, and in particular S scale, as I find HO a bit too small, and O too big, so S scale is the way to go for me.
Okay then mister LOTS OF EXPERIENCE, how old am I since I obviously don’t know my own age?[:(!]
I would strongly prefer that members who are no longer prepared to continue to indulge this OP with the benefit of their support in information and/or experience would simply refrain from posting. Do not participate evocatively.
If he is not what he claims, then the best thing to do would be to simply refrain from actively responding. Don’t contribute to what you feel is a charade. If you have strong evidence that his purpose here is not genuine, please let us know the proper way.
Thank-you.
Crandell
I read somewhere that HO couplers are 25% oversized. I also know that S scale is about 25% bigger than HO, so would it make sense if I used HO couplers on my Sn42 rolling stock and engines? Also, I’d think Sn42 is more popular in canada, as I have seen a flyer for a narrow gauge train show, advertising Sn42 in there website. I’ll have to go to it in April next year. And there are some american companies that produce Sn42. I know Better Than Scratch has a MOW speeder in Sn42. Here’s a pic
.
Also found this:
Harold Minkwitz’s On30 layout that is now being redone as the Pacific Coast Air Line RR in Sn3.5 circa 1870s. The On30 version was featured in Kalmbach’s Model Railroad Planning 2007.
The link doesn’t work, but its something. Also Sn3.5 is the same as Sn42.
Harold tried a variety of scales to get the look and feel he wanted. He started with On30, switched to HO standard gauge, then OO (1/76). Next was Sn42, then back to On30. As of last fall, he and a few others started 55 scale - 5.5.mm per foot or 1/55. HO gauge track is exactly 3ft gauge in 5.5mm scale. I haven’t seen or heard from him since last fall. Harold is a great modeler with some excellent ideas on how to make things work and look good. He had an extensive web site that gave a lot of the important details.
The problem with an oddball scale and gauge is finding the details to complete the scene and make it look reasonably realistic. Things like windows and doors, wheels and trucks, figures of people, cars and trucks (or wagons and horses if model an earlier era) are among the more difficult things to scratch build in the quantities needed for even a small layout. Scratch building a wooden box car (or modifying a plastic model of a box car) is not all that difficult. Making your own brake wheels because there are none available in your scale makes things a whole lot harder. The same with decent looking truck side frames, and so on.
That’s why I recommended you start with a scale that is much easier to locate parts for the 1st time around.
As far as couplers for S, Kadee makes S specific couplers. I do believe that many S (particularly Sn3 as well as On30) modelers use Kadee HO couplers. One thing about using couplers not intended for your scale is getting the coupler and particularly trip pin heights correct. If your layout is to be operational, all your couplers must be at the same height. And the trip pins must be adjusted correctly if you want to use magnetic uncoupling. I know about this because some HOn3 folks use N couplers instead of HOn3. I’m experimenting myself to see which I prefer.
Look forward to hearing about your progress on your layout and rolling stock.
FYI, S scale is 36% larger than HO (1.359375).
Many people did indeed use HO Kadees for S before Kadee came out with their S standard gauge coupler (I’m sure some still do).
Kadee does not make a narrow gauge coupler in S. NMRA standards for coupler height for Sn3 and HO are close, but not quite the same - 0.4063 vs. 0.391. (There is no standard for Sn42, but I think it’s close enough to Sn3 to use that one.) Probably workable by adjusting the trip pin on HO couplers (Kadee makes a tool for this).
I don’t know how the Kadee HO compares to a properly scaled down Sn42 coupler. A possible research project for you depending on how close you want to be.
Enjoy
Paul
The May 2011 RMC has a large pull-out center section on S-gauge. S is a minority scale, but there are several manufacturers that make S scale kits for structures. There is I believe an S-scale society and at least one S-scale themed magazine available. I wouldn’t be surprised if someone doesn’t make kits designed to convert HO steam or diesels to Sn3-1/2.
The 42" gauge Canadian lines were pretty neat, I recall they used to sometimes use standard gauge boxcars temporarily fitted with narrow gauge trucks. Note however that their track wouldn’t look exactly like HO standard guage track. The S narrow gauge ties would be larger (and longer) than HO and would be spaced farther apart. I don’t know if someone makes Sn3-1/2 track, but On30 track might be closer than HO standard gauge. Of course, you could always do some handlaying of track, and buy say Atlas or Walthers turnouts and remove the ties, and re-lay them on correct narrow gauge ties.
I realize that Sn42 is really hard. So I am strating to reconsider On30, but still I don’t like how narrow the track is compared to the trains. So what about On42 (O on S scale)? More stuff is avaliable, but I wonder now about where I will get the steamers. I would widen an HO chassis, but, what about you guys? Would it be easier or harder than Sn42?
On42 would be much more difficult than Sn42. In Sn42 you have the ability to use HO mechanisms, of which there are many, and On30 mechanisms, which are also becoming pretty common. In On42 you’d have to find S scale locos, which are difficult to find to begin with. If you really want to do 42" gauge, S scale is your best bet. As others have said, it will take a good deal of work, but it’s doable if you like scratchbuilding and kitbashing.
I think you are misunderstanding the situation. Modeling in order of difficulty, least difficult to most difficult:
-
Buy RTR
-
Build easy kits as per the instruction sheet.
-
Build craftsman kits or modify plastic kits/add details to plastic engines
-
Modify a plastic locomotive shell with new cab/add details to die cast or brass engines/narrow a plastic car shell
-
Install a new boiler and/or cylinders on an existing mechanism/scratchbuild a car
-
remotor/regear an existing mechanism
-
widen or narrow a locomotive mechanism
-
scratchbuild a locomotive
Obviously this list is open to some interpretation and quibbling. But my experience says that most model railroaders would agree with most of the list. And most of us start at the top of the list with a couple of RTR items, and as our skills and tool chests grow, gradually work our way down the list. Very few of us would feel comfortable starting at even #3 for our very first pieces of rolling stock.
Notice how far down the list changing the gauge of a mechanism is, especially compared to modifying with new cab, domes, and stack. Which is precisely why scale/gauge combinations exist that take advantage of mechanisms that can be used in the existing gauge, but to a different scale. On30 and HOn30 would not exist if were not for HO and N mechanisms on which to base locomotives. Sn42 has more prototype, but except for Eastern Canada, most of the prototypes were overseas.
Because of the com
[quote user=“fwright”]
trainobsessed:
I realize that Sn42 is really hard. So I am strating to reconsider On30, but still I don’t like how narrow the track is compared to the trains. So what about On42 (O on S scale)? More stuff is avaliable, but I wonder now about where I will get the steamers. I would widen an HO chassis, but, what about you guys? Would it be easier or harder than Sn42?
I think you are misunderstanding the situation. Modeling in order of difficulty, least difficult to most difficult:
-
Buy RTR
-
Build easy kits as per the instruction sheet.
-
Build craftsman kits or modify plastic kits/add details to plastic engines
-
Modify a plastic locomotive shell with new cab/add details to die cast or brass engines/narrow a plastic car shell
-
Install a new boiler and/or cylinders on an existing mechanism/scratchbuild a car
-
remotor/regear an existing mechanism
-
widen or narrow a locomotive mechanism
-
scratchbuild a locomotive
Obviously this list is open to some interpretation and quibbling. But my experience says that most model railroaders would agree with most of the list. And most of us start at the top of the list with a couple of RTR items, and as our skills and tool chests grow, gradually work our way down the list. Very few of us would feel comfortable starting at even #3 for our very first pieces of rolling stock.
Notice how far down the list changing the gauge of a mechanism is, especially compared to modifying with new cab, domes, and stack. Which is precisely why scale/gauge combinations exist that take advantage of mechanisms that can be used in the existing gauge, but to a different scale. On30 and HOn30 would not exist if were not for HO and
American example of 42 inch gauge railway: The Pioneer colliery/Pioneer Tunnel Coal mine in Ashland Pennsylvania.
Yes its 42 in gauge.
But its not a railroad in the conventional sense. All it did was serve the internal moves in the mine. Its not really a common carrier the way the 42" gauge railroads of Newfoundland were. It was fairly common to have some sort of narrow gauge operation in large coal mines.
Ashland was served by several standard gauge anthracite roads.
I think Fred’s suggestion - and it’s a very good one - isn’t that you abandon Sn42 altogether, just that you ease your way into it through On30. Buy a locomotive and some car kits and you’ll have something you can at least run. Work on modifying the car kits into S scale, and once you feel comfortable to do the same with a locomotive, go for it.
SPV put it much better than I did. Don’t give up your Sn42 dream. Start with a few pieces of On30. Use it as a basis for learning and easing into Sn42. Many smaller On30 pieces will scale pretty close to Sn42. And it’s easier to cut down the size of a cab than to make it bigger - which occurs if you start with HO instead of On30.
Use S scale structures, figures, and scenery.
If you can find scale drawings of an Sn42 engine - or at least some dimensions - see if you can find an On30 engine where the drivers, driver spacing, and boiler are close to the correct size. That’s why I suggested the Porter. The Porter came in a range of sizes that depended on track gauge and weight and power of the locomotive. But the proportions were similar across the range of sizes. Bigger Porters had bigger drivers and larger boilers.
With a running locomotive, you can modify the details at your leisure to be closer to your prototype. In the meantime, you have running trains at a reasonable price.
If you can find Harold Minkwitz’s web pages or postings on scale 55 (see the narrow gauge section on the Big Blue forums (http://www.the-gauge.net/forum/), he does a great job of showing how to size up On30 locomotives against known prototypes in scale 55n3. And he shows how to modify On30 rolling stock into 3ft gauge scale 55 equipment. Use the same processes for changing HO and S and On30 equipment into Sn42.
Whatever your choice is, you will learn far more by getting started rather than just trolling the forums. I mean it si
I have solved the track problem, as I know that HO track is inaccurate for Sn42. So, a company called custmtrax will make me code 100 rail with larger tie spacing and larger ties. It is flex track with real wood ties, and comes with it’s own roadbed.
An another note, I will keep going with Sn42, but I with fart around with On30 for a while, then make it Sn42. I think I will start with the mogul from Bachmann, then work on other things.
Also, here is a pic of an engine I will use on my railway in Sn42. It is a 4-6-2 from the Newfoundland railway. It developed a whopping 25000 pounds of TE. I’ think i’ll have two of them on my railway, should be more than enough power. Grr, on internet explorer at school, can’t add a photo, look up newfie 4-6-2, will come up with great links.
Try 55n3:
REAL three foot narrow gauge on HO track
Visit:
It has more to offer than the dead S scale and awkward 31 inch gauge of On30, United States narrow gauge is THREE foot. Utilize multi-scale objects to create REAL narrow gauge.
Yes that is a PBL boxcar and a Tyco HO ten wheeler as a 4-4-0. They become real THREE foot before the crash narrow gauge in Scale 55.
Cheap easy REAL three foot North American narrow gauge for everyone.
Thank you if you visit
Harold
Harold - I’m glad to see the site back up. I’ve always enjoyed following along with your projects!