Once in a while I have to post a sort of a correction.
Earlier in this thread I expressed a problem with the lack of the X-29 Boxcars.
I reviewed my rolling stock today while final inspecting some newly built athearn boxcars and discovered I already own three of these:
X-29 Boxcar, 3 Pack PRR Express Stk # 932-9023
Here they are:
http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/932-9023
Are these the ones we are dealing with here?
For me kinda sorta. The top might work if it is dated before 1950. But it is a moot point because they are out of stock as usual.
The only problem with the first car is that it is an express boxcar that is usually used in passenger train operations. the other two have paint schemes that were in effect after Chip’s 1950 cut off date. I would look on E-Bay for old Walthers X29 kits with the twelve numbers that were made in the early 1990’s.
Rick
After all that pitching and moaning, I found an Bachmann X-29 PRR Merchandise Service car at my local hobby shop. That was surprising for two reasons. First of all that I found an X-29. And second that I found 3 cars that I could use (I only bought two). This hobby shop only opened this last Christmas and really didn’t know what he was doing. But he keeps getting better and better. He’s listening to his customers. We may end up with a decent hobby shop. Bout time.
Oh, Chip, I’m sorry… …but that’s no X29:
It looks neither like an X29 nor one of the X29 rebuilds. I suppose it “kinda-sorta” could pass for an X29B rebuild, although your model is missing the narrow sills which betray the original X29 frame:
…but the paint scheme here is “Merchandise Service Phase 2” which was applied starting in January 1950, but only to the *non-*rebuilt X29s (i.e., original short-sided configuration with flat-panel ends):
Those X29Bs (or other X29 rebuilds) that were painted in Merchandise Service got the Phase 1 job:
…although this scheme was more typically applied to X40/X41 class cars as shown above.
So, Chip, unfortunately there is no super-cheap answer that gets you to accurate PRR prototype modeling; not without a lot of work, anyway. But, it’s your layout, of course.
If nothing else, the paint scheme on that X29 is do-able for 1950, even if the car is not. Unfortunate
It depends on how accurate you want to be. I have a number of the old Train Miniature cars, and also some of the Red Caboose versions, and I recently picked up 3 more Walthers (ex-TM) cars.
All cars, including the Red Caboose, got metal steps and grabirons, and the TM cars had the doors and roofwalks reworked. The CASO car also got revised sill plates and scratchbuilt reverse Dreadnaught ends. All cars were painted with Floquil paints and lettered with dry transfers from C-D-S. When I see TM X-29s or USRA boxcars on the used table at the LHS, I snap 'em up, as they’re fun to upgrade and make a nice visual difference in a train. Cheap, too! [:D]
Wayne
Those look nice Wayne, that’s what I hope to do with mine.
FYI Mr. Mouse, they are ARA cars, not USRA. If you can’t find X29s on ebay a search for “ARA” or “M-26” will usually turn up a few. (The real cars were similar, the TM models identical.)
KL
Thanks, Kurt. While the Red Caboose cars are more finely done, in my opinion the plastic grabirons aren’t much of an improvement over the cast-on ones on the TM cars. The biggest single improvement that you can make to the TM (and Athearn, MDC, etc.) cars is to modify the “operating” doors.
If I’m not mistaken, weren’t the USRA steel cars a proposed design, while the ARA versions, which were almost identical, were actually built? Here are a few more TM cars, their version of the ARA car. I based my version of these cars on some photos in some Westerfield ads, and while they’re only an approximation, they’re good enough for me.
All cars got wire grabs and steps, thinned roofwalks, and a revised door treatment. The Michigan Central car started as a TM plugdoor boxcar, as evidenced by the wider body panels. Floquil paint for all, with C-D-S lettering, except for the MCRR car, which was lettered with Champ decals.
Wayne
Well, I thought I done good. $15 is the most I’ve ever spent on a piece of rolling stock. Now you tell me it’s doo-doo. So much for supporting my LHS.
The Walther’s tank car is probably not right either. I’m not sure I want to know.
Chip, a few hours of research can save you big $$$!
I think those Walthers/TM X29s look really good with some details and weathering.
Here’s my N scale version of the Red Caboose Merchandise Service Phase 2 X29. Note how short the sides are (plus the flat-panel ends and Creco doors):
The other car is an X29 rebuild in Merchandise Service Phase 1, which has the silver stripe. Note the taller sides on the rebuilds. This car is a foobie; you don’t see the narrow sides sills as on the prototype. But it’s MicroTrains, and I’ll accept some inaccuracies for the fine detail and running qualities of MicroTrains cars.
Hi Wayne,
The USRA steel, X29 and 1923 ARA boxcars are similar, but not the same cars.
The USRA “steel” boxcars were proposed, but never built by the USRA. They were based on an earlier 1916 NYC steel auto car design. The NYCS took the basic USRA design (which they helped design) and built 30,000+ copies for their own use, or only a couple hundred fewer than X29s. they were the second most numerous single boxcar design built in the USA.
The X29s were a Pennsy design, as competition to the NYC’s USRA design. X29s were ONLY built for the Pennsy, in several different configurations over their 15 year production run.
The 1923 ARA car was BASED on the X29, partially because the Pennsy had men on the design team. While the cars looked a LOT like the X29, they were slightly different. Several roads did build the '23 cars, including the B&O, SAL and CGW, but many other roads bought small numbers as an experiment with steel car technology. The main difference between the '23 and the X29 was the options: ARA car designs were actually standardization suggestions, so individual roads were free to choose different ends, roofs, trucks, and draft gear.
So…how do you tell the three apart? Well, mostly by looking at the ends. In GENERAL, USRA cars have 7/7 Murphy ends, X29s have flat ends, and '23 ARAs have either flat ends or early Dreadnaught. Remember…I said IN GENERAL. The reality is that each car type DID have each type of end. In the end, you basically have to know which road owned which type of car.
Waaa. You have both X29 and X31 models available.
If you model the 1880-1905 era, there hasn’t been a new wooden underframe, truss rod car produced by a major manufacturer in the last 30 years. None. Nada. Zippo.
We have dozens of variations of the 1937 AAR boxcar or USRA twin hopper. Not one truss rod wooden gondola in plastic other than train set quality.
Other than craftsman wood or resin kits, there is ONE type of boxcar, ONE type of stockcar, ONE type of reefer and ONE type of tank car produced of at least “blue box” quality for the first 75 years of railroading, and the they were all designed over 30 years ago. Basically manufacturer think railroads were invented sometime after WW1.
Waaa. You only have 3 or 4 choices of X29 model.
Dave H.
Point Taken–Actually I’ve got a decent supply of 1880’s rollingstock. There is some Walther’s, Bachman, IHC, and Manuta, but for the most part it’s almost all MDC. And the Roundhouse is clearly the best.
Actually, I was excited to find one in my local store, and it was in a stack with Walthers cars, and well, I implicitly trusted the box and the X-29 paint on the side of the car.
Live and learn.
See, that’s a problem. Manufacturers can’t always be trusted. For example, how many times have you seen a bay-window or AT&SF-style caboose lettered for Pennsy? You and I know that Pennsy never ran anything like either, yet manufacturers have no trouble slapping PRR paint on things to sell a few.
I understand major manufacturers can’t stay in business doing only road-specific models, and that it’s necessary to paint certain models in a variety of popular road names rather than have a one-car one-road model (only the smaller guys can do that)… but you have to protect yourself.
I’m not sure what you’re wanting to do here. On the one hand you want a level of accuracy I’m very impressed with, from using the Sanborn maps to plan your track to asking what PRR equipment would have been found there in 1950. But you don’t seem willing to make the investment to actually follow through to that level of accuracy.
If I had a better idea of your goal, I could probably give you better assistance. Or perhaps I’m providing too much unsolicited advice already. If you want me to shut up, I will.
I agree: that’s probably why Train Miniature brought out essentially the same car with both flat and Dreadnaught-style ends. I think that the TM cars offer a decent starting point for modelling any of the prototype versions, and, depending on how much effort you want to put into the conversion, can result in a pretty convincing model. The TM cars can be had for under five bucks around here, used, but usually with Kadees. While I model neither the NYC nor the Pennsy, I recognise that these cars were so numerous that anyone modelling the steam or transition era should have at least a few of these cars on their layout. I model the mid-to-late-'30s on my free-lanced road, set in southern Ontario, and these NYC and PRR cars make up about half of my American prototype cars. The Red Caboose cars come in both the 1924 and 1930 versions of the X-29, so also offer both end types and different door options.
Both Mainline Modeler and RMC did good articles on the X-29 and the NYC cars, the former magazine dealing mainly with the prototypes, while Craftsman covered prototypes and modelling, using either the Red Caboose kit or resin craftsman-type models.
Wayne
Dont get me started on the PRR Bay windows…
I bought a Athearn RTR PRR Caboose of the two window variety that was RTR yesterday and after examining it… I dont think it looks half bad at all… but does it match anything? Who knows!?
Perhaps it’s time the manufactors get out of the 70’s and 80-2000 rut with all the details that they lovingly lavish on thier 30 dollar products and concentrate on some of the earlier stuff. A Caterpiller boxcar gets more attention probably because those that buy such a thing work for Cat. And no, Im not knocking Cat, Ive used thier products for years.
Whenever a company makes trainsets aka Bachmann, Ive gotten quite choosey about which of thier rolling stock… if any to buy.
Chip dont feel bad about your boxcar, Im sitting here wondering what to do with the one Passenger Express Boxcar in my walthers group of three.
Maybe we should form a sort of a X-29 anon group lol.
Don’t worry about it!!
The thing that will make your Indiana Secondary layout is the structures. If you manage to get them half way close, the public will be amazed. “Hey, this scene really looks like our town did in the 1950’s.” You probably could use boxcar red painted wood blocks for cars and they wouldn’t notice.
You can always do a scratch build or kit bash later if you must have the car exactly right.
Have fun
Goal: To fairly accurately reconstruct downtown Indiana in 1950. My original goal was to rebuild the structures pretty accurately (If I can ever find pictures) and then start building resin cast cars with a high level of detail…but this is an extremely long term goal.
Kurt was kind enough to send me some article on the X-29s, but I had only downloaded them when I was driving by the LHS and got sucked in. The car I got is good enough for my son to learn with.
Which brings me to my wild card, my autistic son. He like to handle the rolling stock and push them around the layout by hand. He prefers this to running trains with the throttle. He has broken several cars already. So my short tern goal is to get the track up and running so I have some trains to run. I can see that it may be 6 months or so before I can run on my 1880’s layout, and I’m stalled because I can’t work out the backdrop the way I want it. The rub is that I haven’t run anything at home for about a year. The only real obstacle I have on the PRR is coming up with the money for the track and that’s about $90. In the meantime, I have enough materials to build the turnouts with a Fast Track jig.
So short term, I want to get the track work laid and put up cardboard structures until I can get some decent pictures of the area. Someone around here must have them. I plan eventually to
One day at a time.
Put down that box and step away from the counter.