I have a friend who is now in his 8th month of trying to build his benchwork. He built a 2nd floor on his house just for his layout. The rom is 46 ft wide and 118 ft long with 8 to 9 ft ceilings. The problem is that is is SO BIG he may never gat a train running.
I always thought that if I had that much space I would be happy but the time factor to get anything on the rails would have stopped me in my tracks.
My LITTLE layout is up, running and all the QC has been done for the trackwork. Now I am looking at some changes to make it better operating for the folks that run here on Tuesday nights.
My track plan (that I thought was perfect).
I am making changes as I stated for operations.
After this LONG talk what is TO BIG in your eyes and what is TO SMALL.
My opinion is that my friends is way to big and a 36" piece of flex with no turnouts is to small. THe John Allen switching puzzle was a perfect LITTLE railroad.
I would want an around the walls type layout with broad enough curves to run some big engines (articulated and long rigid wheelbase such as a PRR Q2 4-4-6-4 or a UP 4-12-2) on at least a single main. It might not be prototypical in the end but I like to see them run and it wouldn’t be getting into the Michael Angelo/Cistine Chapel type of life’s project that would suck the joy out of the hobby.
It may be a step that I haven’t gotten to yet, but so far the timesaver/switching puzzle layout schemes do nothing for me. I do look at them when they are posted because I am always looking to advance my understanding, but I would not be happy using them at present.
Sooooooooo, as the gentleman stated above, I most enjoy watching trains negotiate sweeping curves, entering and exiting tunnels, crossing trestles, and a yard with servicing. That means at least 100 sq feet in HO…at least at my experience and skill level.
I would love to have an operating and well-designed basement layout that took up much of the floor plan and at least three walls, but getting it built would be a sobering process for me. I enjoy the completed item more than getting to it, if you know what I mean. Building a layout is a means to an end for me, and is not the prime motivator for my free time.
Last comment - while I was planning my current layout, all I had to play with was a small piece of plywood with roadbed comprising strips of gyproc left over from the basement completion we had just finished. I had made three #8 Fast Tracks turnouts that I joined with about 7 feet of flex in a switch puzzle configuration. I ran my 2-10-4 back and forth on this thing. My point is that I was very, very happy to have that.
If you want to build a big layout by yourself and get it done in a reasonable amount of time, it’s easy…follow the K.I.S.S. (Keep It Simple, Stupid) principle.
I built a 25’ x 50’ layout, and got it running pretty quick because it’s all one level. There’s no helix, there’s no “mushroom”, there’s no hidden trackage, etc. The mainline is 200’ of double track, with one staging yard, two freight yards, and two passenger station/terminals. There’s 250+ freight cars, 50+ passenger cars, and over 30 engines, and we operate the layout weekly with three operators with my Digitrax Zephyr system (wiring was therefore simple, too).
I’m sure there’s some folks that would say my layout is boring, but I’m trying to model the Boston to Providence section of the NH’s Shore Line which is pretty straight and level. I do have grades (got to get up Sharon Hill) here and there, but there’s nothing spectacular except for my Canton Viaduct (even so, it’s only about 85’ high…approx. 12" in HO).
IMHO, anyone building a “big” layout that doesn’t have a lot of good help, should make it easy to build if you ever want to run trains in a timely fashion.
Well I am hours from starting a PRR corridor layout in a 30’ x 20’ space BUT what I am doing could be done in a 12’ x 12’ area. I’m just doing it full size so the same number of turnouts just more flex track which should go pretty quickly (I hope).
I now have the space for that, with my wife’s retirement and the music studio availible. I am building a little at a time, always keeping a place on the plan for expansion, in case I live to be 90. I am dreaming of adding an engine facility, inspired by Walthers, this winter. I may also put some staging area on the other end and another passing siding so I can run trains in both direction. If I would have started with the whole room, I would not have anything yet, but then I started this layout a little late in life to try the whole thing at once.
I dont have much room. I consider 24x30 plenty big enough. At this time Im at a 7x12 foot loop to be completed later this year and that will have to serve for at least a few years. Im glad to have it… I may create a sort of a railfan layout out of it so the big stuff can run once in a while.
The Yuba River Sub is about 24’x24’ and a ‘California Basement’ (garage) layout that is pretty ample for me. It’s a two-level (without helixes) layout and the 34-36" curves are generous enough for all of my big brass articulateds and relatively long (20-30 car) trains. The ruling grade is 2%, and the main line is non-parallel double track much like the old SP line between Roseville and Colfax on the Donner Pass route. I’m more of a train-watcher than an actual model railroad operator–I just like running trains. However, I do wish that I’d incorporated more spur trackage and yard trackage in the original plan. But I still have one side of the garage if I ever get off my rear end and put in a staging yard. But space-wise, I think I’ve reached the limit of a one-operator railroad without DCC.
If your layout is large (or small, but very complex) you should strive to get wheels turning at the earliest possible date. This does NOT mean rush to completion. It means put track on roadbed on subgrade on the first part of the benchwork big enough to hold it up (in the reverse order, of course.) It also means put in enough electrical system to allow operation on whatever track you have as soon as the track nails are all below railhead height, the glue is dry or the caulk is cured.
Fourteen months ago I was given full, exclusive use of a 2-car garage. At present, my benchwork is about 35% complete, trackwork is about 10% complete (all destined to be hidden,) the control panel is temporary but the layout electricals (track power leads, terminal blocks, turnout control connections) are permanent installations. As soon as I had enough powered track I put a work train into service. Shortly after, when the two ends of the finished track were built far enough apart, I added a goods train, a coal unit and a 2-car DMU passenger train to the mix. (The first thing built was a four track staging yard with a cassette connection.) That way, whenever I go into the layout space I can run something, even if it’s only a trainload of track nails and rail joiners going to the present construction site.
Nothing will kill interest quicker than having to do a long-term construction project before enjoying any tangible return. Nothing will keep interest up like watching flanged wheels roll on rail!
Chuck (modeling the netherworld of Central Japan in September, 1964)
The KISS concept certainly is very important! But the Old Dog would also argue that breaking a large problem be it a layout or computer program into “bite sized” pieces is important. I would suggest breaking the layout down into small movable interchangable modules. Each module can be built in the shop then added to the layout when it reaches a certain stage.
Actually, just because the room is that big doesn’t mean it has to be filled with bench-work. If I had that opportunity, I would go around the walls with a couple penninsulas. I would build the around the wall part OUT from the actual wall about two feet with a sub-wall for the back-drop so I could walk BEHIND the layout instead of crawling under it. Like-wise, the pennisulas would be wide enough to also permit a two foot walkway through the middle.
Also four to six foot aisle-ways would also be a pleasure to have. All this would be easy to accomplish since I’d want really broad radius curves as well.
Sounds like wasting a lot of wasted space ? - maybe, but as has been mentioned, I ain’t gonna live long enough to finish my 13X24 yet alone something THAT big !!! It would still have more than ample bench work for a layout, the bonus being the added comfort to work and operate on. I don’t know about the rest of you, but the older I get, the more annoyed I am having to crawl around under bench work and having to reach to the back to work on / retreive something.
Anyone else been paying attention to what the Koesters and McClellands and Chubbs are doing today ??? Long gone are the deep inaccessable scenes. Allen McClellands new layout has a walkway between two walls enabling stand-up / out of sight operating staging. Out in the open, workable staging … I thought that was great.
Last year I built a house for my wife to cover my new 1800 sq ft basement which was going to house my dream layout…and my job changed taking me some 600 mi away. This has happened three times!!! Each time I was part way in constructing the big layout.
We have decided to keep the basement (house) and return there to retire in about 10 years. In between basements, I had to live in a small house or apartment. To keep the RR going I built a modular layout using “dominoes”. I have this layout currently (8’ x 24’) set up in the basement so I can run trains when I am home and operate while I work on the dream layout.
Menwhile, back at the small apartment, I am working on additional dominoes which can be taken home and attached to the layout in the basement, yet operated in the apartment. If I waited to build the big dream layout all at once, it probably would never get built. I am using a planned modular approch to get to the big layout. If I never get to the big layout I can still operate and run trains on the smaller modular layout(s). In addition, working on the dominoes has significantly improved my modelaing and construction skills.
Though I have often considered a basement-sized 4-track Pennsy layout as my dream, I’m thinking a medium-sixed layout (12x16 or so) might be more appropriate since I tend to be a lone wolf.
I had thought about a cockpit-style or 'round the walls 4-tracker with a duckunder staging yard.
But I herniated a disc in my back four years ago weight lifting and it just won’t seem to heal. I can still pass my military physical fitness tests just fine to remain in the service, but when my back flares up I’m practically useless. So duckunders and completely 'round the walls layouts are probably a no-go. My back issue is a degenerative one and so I can only expect it to get worse. Here’s hoping it can hold out until I hit 20 years service and can retire!
I have a nice 3’x6’8" layout now, and it just might fit into a future layout. That way I can build the layout in sections over time. Plus, it will be portable.
I have another 8 and some change years before I retire, so that’s plenty of time to plan. Right now the small layout can come with me when I move.
There are days when my 3’x6’8" just seems too small. But I have to remind myself it’s a layout, which is more than some model railroaders can have.
with change always in the air, were adding several hundred square feet to out house and i opted to spend a few extra thousand to have a full basement under it all, so now with the old basement and the new i’ll have over 1900 sf to work with. after many years of carefull planning, i do not believe that my moldeling goals can be acheived in a small space. so i intended to use almost all the avail basement for my RR. but as a carpenter by trade, i most certianly wont have eight months invested in bench work! and yes, i have weighed the approx two years it may take to run the first train!!! but its what i want.
BIG ? I guess a house 118’x46’= 5,428 SQUARE FEET ! ! and this is on one floor, that means the house is over 10,000 square feet, This is not a house by any means, it’s an airplane hangar, I think this may fall into the unbelievable section, let’s get serious here folks.
For me, I have a nice 4x8. Funding comes and goes for it… You can’t beat the want for that pretty locomotive, can you?
It’s been in the works for about a year… And the strive for more engines and DCC has made it that long.
What I think is too small is something less than 30 sq. feet. My 4x8 is fun to run on, I can watch trains, and do some switching. I do like those little timesavers, but I have the bug to run bigger stuff… Which a 4x8 can suffice when 22" radii. is used. Too big is well… Too big. I’d personnaly love to have a 35’x45’ basement layout… But being 13 that doesn’t seem likely, does it?
I have a layout that I consider large. It is in a 14x28 foot building. On three walls the bench work is 30" wide. It goes down the two long walls and a short wall. Down the middle I have a section that is 24x4 feet. I have about 150ft of main line, a major yard and a small yard.
As I was laying track I wired it and ran trains on it. I have a Zephyer. All track is know laid and the trains run on all track. It has taken me about 4 years to get to this point.
What’s unbelievable about it? While there may not be any on my block, there are plenty of houses that big, and bigger, owned (hopefully) by people who can afford them, in Clark County. If a person who owns such a house can dedicate immense floor space to a railroad room and wishes to do so, all I can say is, “More power to him.” (Nevada Power, contemplating his monthly contribution to their bottom line, would undoubtedly say the same.)
Another factor enters - square footage is only one of a good many criteria that will determine how “big” a layout is. Simplicity of track plan (or lack thereof) is, IMHO, far more important. Somebody who wants to model 50 miles of the UP between Las Vegas and Barstow will get it operational far faster than somebody modeling 50 miles of The Broad Way through Ohio. For some, a huge room might be used to get the effect of “miles and miles of nothing but miles and miles,” the quintisscential essence of desert West railroading - on a layout no more complex than something someone else might build on a ping-pong table.
A person with flexibility problems (hi, Dave!) might opt to use a large percentage of that huge space for people operation, rather than train operation. My own aisleways are as generous as I could make them, and no track will be located beyond easy reach-in range of an aisleway. Pop-ups are fine for Jack-in-the-box. Arthritic, inflexible old coots (I resemble that!) are well advised not to plan to use them.
Had I chosen to model the LA&SL north of Las Vegas instead of a rather busy secondary route of the JNR my garage would have
I’ve worked on friends layouts that seemed back in the 1980s would have been considered large at that time. Nowadays it’d be considered medium size. I have a SMALL round the room shelf layout. Its done to the point of I’m play’n trains (track, ground cover, structures & weathering), still have a lot to do. Now I’m working on rolling stock.
All these years of building the thing . . . “Model Railroading is fun.”
I’m going bite sizes, but not as small as the Dog’s modular concepts. My current Rock Ridge and Train City is about 100 square feet and has both scenery and operations for 3-4 people. But it is only 1/5th of the overall plan. Once it is “done,” I’ll gut the rest of the basement, finish it, and start construction. By then, I’ll have done enough operating on other layouts to be thoroughly sure of what I want to operate.
And the current layout is intended to be the bottleneck for the rest of the layout. All trains going from Sacramento to Virgina City or back, must stop and change power at Train City.
