I am currently finalizing the plan for my future layout. It’s not completely finalized yet, but the benchwork will be something along the lines of this configuration:
I would like to use foam as a subroadbed across the entire layout. Is this feasable?
Also, what construction should I use to support it? L-girders, frame, etc.
I had someone suggest that for the part along the wall at the right I should use hollow core doors.
Also, the gray part is a removable staging yard. How should I construct that?
You certainly can use pink foam for the entire layout and support it on L-girders or even on a plywood base.
If you use 2" thick foam you can get away with not having to build a plywood “table” first (like I did.) I tend to overbuild, but others here will be able to tell you how to space the framing members underneath better than I. (I usually read that people using L girders space around 16"-24"…)
I basically built a table and then glued foam to the top of it. But 2" pink is pretty sturdy and some modelers like Lou Sassi and Bill Darnaby have used it without any sort of “table” underneath, just a basic frame of 1x3 or 1x4 lumber.
Hollow core doors is another method frequently mentioned by MR and other publications. Very doable.
You might want to consider how you will connect the different sections if you use different methods for some of them. I would think it would be easier to build the whole thing with doors, or with a frame, or with L-girders, rather than a mish-mash; you could end up spending more time trying to get the door and some other framing to line up than just picking one or the other.
I don’t have a staging yard at this point so I don’t know, but seems that the same methods above can/will be used to build that as the rest of the layout.
I have built 4 layouts with foam. Unless you already have the doors and/plywood or can get them really cheap,I would pass,there is no need .
My 1st had ply under the foam,and the only difference from it and the others ,was every time I needed to drop a wire I needed to find the drill.The first time you try to get a wire thr a hollow core door;you’ll regret it.
All you need is a frame of 1X4s. I have spaned 6ft and up to 8 [with braceing ]
For cross supports; 24in for 2in foam. 16 for 1in. I am now useing 3/4 and find 12 works better. IMO Lgrider is over kill.
I have added on to, and changed my bench work many times,As long as its strudy,dose not move when leaned aganst, and [somewhat] level the trains do not care whats under the foam.
My current layout is kinda shaped like yous. I just built tables to fit and the screwed them together.
A little common sence will get you there faster then over thinking it
You have received some “Sound Advice” here. I see no reason to add to it.
The only thing I would have to say is spend the extra money on the number one clear select pine 1x4’s as it’s worth it. If you have tools, ripping 1/2" or 3/4" inch plywood depending on length of span for your framing is even better. As long as you pilot hole before screwing it together not to split the plywood.
And it sounds kind of silly but I dish soap my long screws treads. And I buy the screws with the threadless shake by the head to draw things tight.
Thanks for all the advice and tips everyone! It sounds like an open-grid style plan is my best bet, with foam directly on top. Uncle Butch, thanks for the specifics. TF- sorry, I’m a bit lost. What would I use the plywood for? Thanks for the tip on the screws.
Gidday Harrison, for what you’re doing I don’t really see the point of using doors, just complicates doing the wring and positioning point motors, if they’re to be used, IMO.
I’ve done a reasonable amount of building bases at the local club, and I’m a big fan of using 1 x 4 clear pine for the framing and 3/8” MDF for the base. The centres of the supporting 1 x4 s is about 15”.
The legs are either 2 x 2, though I prefer 1 x 4 L girder construction legs.
It would appear that I use similar screws to Track fiddler, and also soap the threads, (so that makes for at least two silly ffolk) but I also predrill the holes (undersize) and countersink the timber for the countersunk heads. My DeWalt battery drill with the appropriate screwdriver attachment does the rest. I prefer the square recessed head CSK screws.
I do not glue any of the joints, surprising how much a club may change its mind regarding a layout while ones away, to find the bench work that I built, destroyed, so no glue makes for reusable timber and besides I don’t think the extra st
The clear select Pine for the 1x4 framing is the best choice.
The only thing I was saying is, …If one has a table saw and can rip plywood for the framing members. The 90 degree layers of wood grain opposing each other in the plywood layers, stays truly straight forever.
Overkill though. The premium 1x4’s will be just fine.
The foamboard I use is Owens-Corning XPS Foamular 150. It won’t disintegrate or otherwise breakdown. The only possible issue I’ve heard raised is the flammability issue, but extra care in wiring ought to avoid that (I hope lol).
I’ve also seen it said that there may be very slight shrinkage in the foamboard over an extended period of time - many years. But basically, the XPS is immune to climate/humidity issues, doesn’t flake off or break, and is very sturdy. (The 150 or 250 number is supposedly the psi that the foamboard will handle.)
The white expanded polystyrene EPS foam breaks into small bits pretty quickly and is not an acceptable material.
I use square box builds to start with and put loose foam on top, with lots of overhang, draw in layout and add any wood needed to the frame for support and then cut out the foam and glue down. I use bead type foam on mine, no shrinkage except when first manufactured.
Most lumber and wood (and plywood) these days is bought at big box type home improvements stores that offer it for sale indoors. My first ever layout was back when the local lumberyard stored stuff outside (under cover, ideally) but it was still damp from the outside world. Having said that, it was higher quality stuff than just about anything I see for sale today.
Standard advice back then was to buy your wood and lumber and plywood well enough in advance that it had time to get accustomed to your indoor situation, basement or whatever.
Even though the materials for my current layout were purchased at stores where they were stored indoors (at least when I bought them they were - they clearly did store wood in unheated open sheds out back) I did take the precaution of letting the wood go through a change of seasons in my basement, except for the very first few benchwork dominos where I just couldn’t wait to get going. I think that remains good advice regardless of source of wood. How it is stored also matters: you don’t want to create new warpage by leaning things. Store it flat.
Looking at the OP’s track plan I wondered about the small peninsulas that stick out and more particularly about just how much aisle space they have between them. It needs to be practical access.
I built two layouts with foam. The first one was bacis open benchwork, just rectangular boxes 2x8, a pair of 8 foor long 1x4s for the long sides, and then another one cut to 4 pieces for crossmembers. 2’ centers. On top of that I glued 2" thick foam, and it was perfectly fine, even to lean on (standing on it, no). For that one, I installed Tortoises from the top, using a method I found online that was used by some Freemo group. It worked well, but was kind of messy, routing out the opening for the Tortoise, holding the Dremel in oen hand and the shop vac hose in the other. As an experiment I took a spare Tortoise and glued it right to the bottom of the foam witht he same adhesive caulk I was using for the track and roadbed. After holding it in place 5-10 minutes, it held itself. Once the caulk fully cured - I had to hit it VERY hard to knock it off, and the caulk joiint didn;t break - it took a thin layer of the foam with it. So you could potentially attach them on the bottom just like a plywood layout, but it’s going to be pretty much permanent.
Second one, my previous layout, was built mostly the same way except the crossmembers were 1x3 so the foam sat down between the 1x4s a little bit. I also used 2 layers of 2" form, and bfore I installed the foam, I attached a sheet of 1/4" plywood to give a palce to screw switch machines and cable ties and so forth to. It was 2 layers of foam only because I originally started out making a small switching module where I would need more than 2" from the track on top to the bottom, this way I could carve away the entire top layer of foam and then down in to the second layer to get what I needed for the feature I wanted (a coal dealer where the track was up high, and the actual yard and storage bins were down at the street level below, where the street passed under a bridge on the railroad). Since I already had the one built when I moved to a larger place, I just built the rest the same way rather than scrap it and start over
Thanks for all the info everyone, it sounds like I will probably use frame benchwork with either foam or plywood on top. Now I just need to decide between plywood and foam… Considering I will want to add a few things below track level (the lake along the yard and the Saranac River), which should I use, plywood (cookie-cutter) or foam?
MDF!!! [:-^] Sorry Harrison I should behave myself; [:$] I’d go for dimensional ply.
Apologies to Harrison for going [#offtopic]
“I find it fascinating the use of foam on layouts in the USA/Canada. Here in the UK foam is a no-no as it begins to disintegrate within a year.”
Gidday David, a problem for us foreign chaps reading a fine magazine such as the Model Railroader, especially in layout construction techniques, is the use of propriety names when it comes to material used.
As an example, going back some years, the best practice for layout tops was ½ inch Homasote ® laid on ¾ inch ply. In the pre internet days I never found out what Homasote ® actually was, in fact it was very similar to Pinex ®. To confuse the issue, like Pinex ®, there were actually more than one product (glued compressed Papier- Mache, simply put), it’s just that that one product “acquired” the brand name.
Isn’t MDF especially susceptible to humidity, and can be destroyed by moisture or if it gets wet? I could be wrong, I just seem to remember learning about it (and OSB) early-on when I was getting back into the hobby and wrote them off for some reason like that… [:^)]
Gidday Andy, the Bears comfy cave is located in a “temperate maritime climate” and I personally like to seal/prime all my wooden base work, MDF included, for the very reasons you’ve mentioned.
That said I’ve been involved in transporting unprimed MDF topped base boards in some inclement weather and have seen no real problems.
But then I’m a picky perfectionist sorta cove and my aim (no different to everyone else, I guess) is to have fool proof (read Immaculate) trackwork.
That said, I don’t have the extremes of temperature or humidity that some of you ffolks face, so am not able to comment on how unprimed MDF would handle those conditions. But then I’d suggest that Homasote® would have the similar problems, and besides, if I was to use dimensional plywood for the top, I’d still prime it.
The bottom line is that if you have a material that you prefer to work with, is readily available and priced right, stick to it. [:)]&
I’ll conceed I’m a little to the party but here are my thoughts:
As to the door vs. regular benchwork question: I have both on mine. The main yard is built with two old hollow core doors that are older than I am. I also have conventional sections with plywood. Just a matter of lining the tops of the sections properly and sizing the legs. Wiring is a little more difficult with the door but not too hard.
Get yourself a good set of woodworking tools. Square, saw (whether hand or power), a miter box if you get the hand saw, power drill, drill bits, jig saw (as you’re talking about cookie cutter benchwork) and most importantly a good set of framing clamps. They hold your framing at 90 degree angles to keep everything square. Also consider some 6" C Clamps. Nice when holding sections together for attaching them.
I fully agree with the 1x4s for framing. When I first starting railroading, I was in a modular railroad club that used the NMRA HO modules standard with 1x4s. I have used that idea with any other benchwork I have built. One of those old modules is still in use in my current layout. (About 30 years old.) May be a headache, but if you can’t get good grade 1x4s, tell your lumber yard that you want to pick the boards. (I have small town yards and they are very good about it.) I have come across some that I wouldn’t wish on my worst enemy as they were warped, bowed and twisted like crazy. Don’t even get me started on 2x2s. (A whole additional story on that one.)
Going back to the modules, consider using carriage bolts and some sort of levelers on your legs. The carriage bolts will give a resonably smooth surface and allow for easy disassembly for moving. The levelers allow for you to compensate for uneven floors. I needed them when I started my current layout in my former apartment. (I now have a house with a railroad room/garage. I still use them in there as well although not as bad.) The floor had a major slope to it. (1 1/2" to 2&quo