Some general questions on railroads in Pennsylvania.

Model Railroader General Discussion (Model Railroader)
1

Hi all,

I’m relatively new at this, so please forgive me if the terminology is a bit unusual.

I was driving up route 15 (in Pennsylvania), and saw a Norfolk Southern train passing by. I noticed there were several tractor trailers included in the train (at the end). However, they weren’t piggy backed on a rail car, but rather had wheel sets directly attached to the trailers.

First time I have seen this. I assume they must have been empty, as I can’t imagine the trailers are designed to handle this kind of stress - linking multiple trailers together. Up in Rochester, NY (where I’m located), I’ve only seen them piggy backed.

Is this a common thing?

What brought this question about is that In a more general sense, I’d like to plan a layout based on this area (central NY through Pennsylvania). I’m planning on the diesel era (probably the 1960’s and later), but am still trying to decide on a time frame (e.g., Lehigh valley just before they folded - nice mix of freight and passenger?, or a more current Norfolk Southern branch).

From what I understand (and this is based on minimal research) is that this area is mostly coal related trains, with a more recent introduction of intermodal frieght. So a second question would be, does anyone have any recommendations on where to start researching this area? I’ve done a bit of research on this site and perused the Norfolk Southern website, but to be honest, with all the consolidations that have gone on, it gets to be quite confusing.

Driving down route 15, which I do on a fairly regular basis, I have seen a lot of old railroad related items (old stations, sidings, rail cars etc…) that have really piqued my interest, which is why I thought it might be nice to focus on this area.

Another consideration would be availability of loco’s and cars. I’m leaning towards HO scale. I was considering N scale, but after playing around with it, I think HO scale is a better f

2

Hi Chris,

I can’t answer your second question, but as far as the trailers are concerned, they are called road railers. Here is a link for the Norfolk Southern service called “Triple Crown”.

http://www.triplecrownsvc.com/Bimodal.html

In HO, Bowser makes these kits.

Regards,

Eric

3

Since you are interested in railroads in the 60’s I would suggest the railroad historical societies for the Pennsylvania, New York Central, and Penn Central railroads. Search on google “ historical society” to get hits.

Most large towns and cities also have historical societies that might help.

Wikipedia entries for those railroads might help and may have links to other sites.

Good luck

Paul

4

Sounds to me that what you are describing was called part of Conrail’s Buffalo line that ran from Enola up to Buffalo. The September 2013 issue of Trains Magazine had an article called Pennsylvania’s Castaway Short Lines Thrive Again which has a map showing a portion of the route. You might find that article interesting.

The Conrail Historical Society has a website with some information on this route. The link is: http://thecrhs.org/?q=OnLocationWithConrail/BuffaloLine/map.

If you Google Conrail Buffalo Line, you’ll come up with many more information sources.

5

Depending on where you are in Pennsylvania, there’s a real diversity of rail traffic, such as:

Intermodal…

Coal…

Tractors (with mixed freight)…

Trailers (155 of 'em on this train)…

Ethanol…

Tank cars (not ethanol)…

Autoracks…

Mixed freight…

Wayne

6

Thank you all for the information and for the helpful research ideas. It has been a great help!

Regards, Chris.

7

Wayne, nice catch on that Norfolk Southern Heritage unit [Y]. “Illinois Terminal” passed through here (South Western PA) not that long ago.

Happy Modeling!

Don.

8

Roadrailers Several railroads have tried them but very few do now. The trailers are designed to move on the rail so they move loaded.

I started modeling the LV in the 60’s or 70’s. It was kinda depressing By then coal had dried up and passenger service was down to just a couple trains with maybe 2 or 3 cars. The coal business had pretty much evaporated by the 1960’s. 90% of the LV’s tonnage was hauled on 10% of their route miles. Most of the LV track was abandoned or spun off to short lines when Conrail was formed. The NY-Buffalo main line was about all that survived.

I would start with the Anthracite Railroad Historical Society, their quarterly magazine have a lot of material on the LV. I would also cruise E-Bay for Lehigh Valley Raillroad stuff. There have been several books on the LV published.

LV engines will be harder to come by.

9

Everything Lehigh Valley: http://www.anthraciterailroads.org/lvrrmodeler/index.html

Be sure to check out the previous Model Railroad, the Lehigh and Keystone Valley club covers much of the Lehigh Valley’s former routes, and they take great pains to get the track plans accurate. Back when I was a member, we had a Conrail signal maintainer come by and just looking at the track he could tell where on the layout he was, didn’t need any of the helpful signs we had posted in important places.

–Randy

10

Take a gander at (forum member) Jerry Britton’s, Keystone Crossings, for everything Pennsy – Now celebrating 10,000,000+ webpage hits. Also, take special note of the (TOFC - Trailer On Flatcar) Pennsy TrucTrain Overview, for more than “just coal traffic” in Pennsylvania circa 1960.

Keystone Crossing’s info here is appropriate for your planning as the Penn Central merger didn’t happen until 1968, and; PRR’s full conversion to diesel engines occurred in 1958. Somehow in Central PA – You would have some sort of interaction with the Pennsy, and its Tuscan Brown & Brunswick Green motive power.

11

Railroads in Pennsylvania were overbuilt–we had more miles of railroad here in this state than any other state in America ever had. This was not so much of a problem prior to the automobile age and the rise of the airplane–but once they came along, some of the freight railroads were doomed. As the industrial and mineral production declined, the miles of essentially “duplicate” competing mainlines just could not sustain themselves any longer.

Additionally, the Northeast Extension of Pennsylvania Turnpike was built with essentially public money on a route roughly parallel to major portions of existing freight railroads. I did not realize the tremendous financial impact on those parallel freight railroads until some of the recently published books spelled it out plainly:

1956 was the last year Lehigh Valley ever made a profit. Much of the PA Turnpike Northeast Extension was fully open by 1957 (a small southern portion was opened in 1955). The PA Turnpike was the coffin nail for more than one railroad. It definitely contributed to the rapid decline of Lehigh Valley, Central Railroad of New Jersey, Lehigh and New England, Reading, and others. Of course, Penn Central’s failure to pay monies owed to its neighbors also pushed some further over the cliff.

I have been utterly fascinated by the many attractive paint schemes Lehigh Valley, CNJ, Reading, and others painted on their interesting diesel rosters, and I’ve owned many of the engines in HO scale. However, when I watched the early 1970’s videos that are out there (to see the big Alco Centuries), I was rather depressed at the empty, tree filled Lehigh Valley yards and the track joints so bad you thought at any moment the big Alcos would rock themselves off the rails.

Truly a fascinating era, and kudos to those who model it well…but that is why I’ve chosen to model railroads far away from the state of PA, where I&nbs

12

I think the best combination of what you want would be the New York Central’s PA division main line from Geneva/Elmira to Williamsport.