Fifedog,
I use Plasticville,and K-Line autos to fill my MPC auto racks,they work well also.
I think I might have met you at St. Denis station a year or two ago.(had my baby son in a stroller)
Carl T.
Yes, tool searches were a huge deal at the Mt Clemens and tool making was a huge cost which is why they were so slow at coming out with new models. According to the TM history book, they spent $100,000 tooling the SD-18 truck frames.
choochin3 - Probably, I get over there from time-to-time. Is the trackwork all done and the signals up and working at St D?
Fife,
The trackwork,and signals are done and in service.(I miss the CPL’s)
Earlier this week a new platform was put in on the Old Main side.
I hang out there a few times a week,usually after work in the evenings.
Carl T.
Thank you Sir James and John. Not to flog a dead horse, but there are some in this hobby who just don’t understand this undeniable fact. Consider that 100 grand was a while ago, though probably done stateside. But even in China, development, research, design, tooling and making the final dies for an accurately proportioned and scale proportioned engine CAN cost half a million, one million or even more! Even the paint masks are costly considering the small runs of many higher end products.
I won’t defend list prices for everyone. Take for example the $36 Lionel starter cars with plastic trucks and then compare to Atlas Industrial Rail or K-Lionel with die cast trucks. And those kinds of trains sell in quantity! Accurate detailed high end products, which don’t sell in quantity and have new development costs ARE going to be expensive… even from China.
The high level of accuracy and sea of new models coming from the orient has to do with digital 3D modeling and numerical control toolmaking. What once took days to carve by hand takes hours to carve by machine at a fraction of the cost. The orient was one of the first to incorporate numeric control technology in the model RR industry and got an upper hand on the market. The new models have lost the human touch which is something that makes MPC special.
Thanks for the tip! This is exactly the cause! The front of the car rears up and off it goes. I installed modern sprung trucks on some of my more used models. I will give it a try!
Kurt
MPC era was from 1970-1985, right? What about 1986 and onward? Is that modern Lionel?
The MPC era is always looked at for its cheap o27 stuff when it had alot of really nice stuff too! My blue comet is well… AWESOME! im really happy with it and it seems to be great quality. I also have a small 2-4-0 switcher which is fun to use and works well.
That is correct. MPC (General Mills) sold out to Richard Kughn in 85. Kughn also bought the Lionel name from the Lionel Corporation (General Mills was paying royalities for the name). It became Lionel Trains Incorporated or in short, the LTI era. Many collectors still refer to the MPC era as the beginning of the modern era.
MPC takes alot of flack for cheapening the product which they did in some ways. But, America had entered the throw away age and wasn’t willing to spend serious cash on trains. MPC really had no choice in the matter. Either cheapen the product so it sells or do away with the company all together.
A lot of parts from the Lionel corpation made it to the MPC plant and got used up. This makes some interesting variations with early MPC such as the 634 switcher mentioned earlier or some ATSF boxcars. For even more trivia, MPC and LTI continued making track clips with the Ives Corporation stamped on them (Lionel bought Ives tooling back in the early 1900’s).
I’ll settle this MPC is dung debate once and for all. If you don’t like MPC, you’re unAmerican!
[:D]
A bit more serious, about a third of what I run is MPC. I don’t own many MPC engines (four off the top of my head). I own about 15 or 20 9700 series boxcars, which are the most run cars of mine as far as MPC goes.
What I really like about MPC is the accessories. Most are identical to their postwar counterparts (aside from the NY and MI locations on the underside of the unit), and usually cost less than half of a postwar original. With the exception of my gateman, I think all my “postwar” accessories are MPC lookalikes if there was one made.
Just my two cents,
J White
Yes! And to settle it even more, put an MPC power truck up to your nose and take a big wiff. Now that’s American.
And,…where did the savings go with the move to the orient? I am looking at the traditional line cars in the new catalog. MSRP on these is $50 to $60. Even when discounted that seems way high because there isn’t a lot to them. Do you agree? Yet, the scale standard O cars with all the crispy detail and graphics are only like $15 to $20 more. I’m OK with that and pre-ordered three (at discount of course).
Indeed,
This is my kind of topic. My first Lionel set was an MPC set. It was a Pennsylvania 2-4-0 with a chugging tender. There was also a blue Great Northern hopper, yellow Union Pacific flatcar, red Southern Pacific gondola, and a green Penn Central Caboose. It served me well, until I got my next set.
The 2-4-0 has since stopped working, and sadly, lies in pieces in a junk box. I hope to ge a newone soon to replace my old set. I have always been fond of MPC products. and I have my eye on the Southern, Great Northern, and Union Pacific FARR sets. The Blue Comet is high on my list of acquisitions.
Has anyone had experince with these sets?
Cheese
3railguy - In short, the savings to the corporation are in “Legacy” fees. (funny they should name their new system that) It would probably make us ill to know what the cost, per unit, is at factory, and what the mark-up is. …and then there are the out-of-work minions that used to work for BIG L (howza-bout a follow up to that, CTT?) Sure, I like all the new product, but I still think of those unmentioned Americans that lost their livelyhoods…[2c]
With your 2-4-0, it could be the brushes are shot, a bad connection, or it just ceased up. The motor assembly was made in huge quantities and the entire assembly is easy to replace. Used ones in good working order show up on ebay pretty frequently for around ten bucks.
The Great Northern and UP Farr sets are good. They are headed by berkshires made the old school way. Magnetraction, Pullmore motor, etc. Sometimes you have to adjust the motor shims slightly to get the best performance. Practically all berks since day one are like this.
Cheese,
My first set was real similar to yours, though mine was a Rio Grande 2-4-0. Mine still runs, but it’s missing the drawbar and bell. The drawbar has been gone for better than 20 years; I use a plastic trash bag tie to attach the tender to it. It’s always the first train to run on every layout I’ve ever built.
These engines should go for next to nothing on eBay, get that set running again!
J White
Fifedog, it would be nice to see the MPC/LTI story published in CTT (over a number of issues). Kind of like CTT did with the postwar era when they interviewed ex-employees. The move from New Jersey, the dealings with Johnny Cash, product devolopment, etc. There are bits and pieces floating around but I think there’s a lot more to the story.
And,…where did the savings go with the move to the orient? I am looking at the traditional line cars in the new catalog.
There are no cost savings being passed on to the consumer here. Home and consumer electronics may have gotten less expensive being made overseas but not our trains. Lionel makes a good profit on the traditional items where the tooling and dies have long been paid for. I’ve always felt the continued high prices on these items are in essence welfare payments for the high end products, where there are recent high development and tooling costs. Factor in the low production run numbers and these items, despite the arguements of many die-hard high end guys, do not make money. In fact many lose money (factoring in the high devvelopment costs) until they get into subsequent production runs.
As mentioned above, the development/research and tooling process is now different, especially for the high end items. While the computer generated and assisted engineering would on the surface, seem to make the whole process easier, the precision and accuracy demanded by some hobbiests, have factored out that advantage.
I’d rather run the trains than sit there and count the rivets and then send off a complaint letter. Or spend time on the phone trying to get warranty service on my fried electronics or figuring out what happened to the loco I sent back months ago, so MPC stuff is just fine and looking better all the time. I’ve said it before, but even my “cheap” MPC stuff still works great and certainly has a better, time-proven track record than many of the so-called advanced trains of today.
Fifedog, it would be nice to see the MPC/LTI story published in CTT (over a number of issues). Kind of like CTT did with the postwar era when they interviewed ex-employees. The move from New Jersey, the dealings with Johnny Cash, product devolopment, etc. There are bits and pieces floating ar
Great discussion! I run MPC, postwar and modern. But folks, don’t talk MPC up too much. I don’t want the prices to increase!!!
III Rail Guy, your Avatar is great! What a hoot!
And Brianel027 I sure appreciate your discussion on MPC trucks and how to tighten them up. Thank you for enlightening us. I always assumed it was due to weight only. I learn a lot from these discussions. Thank you everyone!
Rickster, Mpls., MN
I don’t think it would be fair to these individuals to dig up their career moves unless they volunteered the information. A lot of different people have worked at Lionel and at least one classic has evolved under thier control. That’s the kind of thing that makes Lionel history so interesting.