On Local Live the ballast on that connection looks brand new compared to the other trackage around it.
The “Update File” on page 14 of the August 2006 Trains (worth a look) covers the increase in railroads running over the EJ&E, and says UP acquired the rights from West Chicago to Waukegan and Joliet during 1999.
I read in Trains somewhere, somewhen (?) that BNSF was going to run coal trains from Eola to CN at Griffith.
Can’t they run Galesburg-Streator-Joliet-Griffith ?
Oh, good question. I dont know if there is a connection between the old Santa Fe and the J in Joliet.
Just looked on Google map and it does not appear to be a connection off of the SF to the J.
My guess is the BNSF is routing the coal to CN via Eola/Griffith. Or if they dont have rights, then downtown to the St. Charles Airline and down the IC mainline to CN Junction and then on the old Grand Trunk.
About a year ago there was a derailment of a coal train on the St. Charles Airline at the Metra crossing which really messed up the morning commute. There is no doubt considerable motivation to keep those trains off of the downtown tracks for several reasons.
ed
Equipment Registers show that ATSF and EJ&E connected at Joliet at one time; the latest one I can put my paws on still shows a connection. I suspect that it’s over the line going west from EJ&E’s yard, past the steel mill site, to the north end of the station. Do the old GM&O and Santa Fe have any physical connection around there?
Having said that, I’m not sure I’d want to see a coal train traversing that particular trackage!
PZ, that new connection to the J at West Chicago is only a few years old; the BN/J diamond was removed at about the same time.
(And Ed, I remember how quickly they built that balloon track at Wellsboro back in 1976–and watched a few backup moves there before it was done!)
A few random thoughts…
WB UP trains that use the new (2001?) connection track at W Chicago do not have to make any backup moves… They run run straight thru the yard and enter the Geneva Sub main at CP Kress.
For a very good listing of trains that use the “J” please check out the EJE archive site… http://www.ejearchive.com/page_info.html#trainlist
It has been noted that the “J” is extending CTC northward (timetable west). Is the CTC going to be extended all the way to W. Chicago? That would make sense. If yes, then will the tower (operated by the “J”) at W Chicago remain? Or, would it become an automatic interlocker? There is still a lot of activity in the area, but without the commuter trains at W Chicago Yard entering / exiting from the Downtown Lead there’s a lot less activity then there used to be.
CC
Chris:
That is a MAJOR EJE website. I could get lost in there for hours. The train descriptions are really detailed. I never realized there was that much traffic on the line. It is very obvious that line is gaining importance every year.
The amount of traffic for Gary Works is amazing. I see the line from Cavanaugh to Whiting pretty frequently. There are often huge trains on that line. I dont know much about the Illinois operations, but the Indiana side is very busy with the CN trains and the steel/refinery traffic.
Thanks for giving us the site.
ed
Thanks… My understanding from people at the RR, is that the basic goal is to make the majority of the western sub CTC. Right now it goes from Joliet to Turner (just south of Plainfield), and then starts again at East Normantown and stops at West Chicago. Then CTC again from Spaulding to Leithton. They plan to keep the West Chicago tower, simply because they control it and they’re afraid giving it up would put all the control in UP’s hands. Numerous upgrades have been made for the foreign run-thrus, like at Liberty St. and the new Sutton Siding further North, which was for the CN trains mostly. The management in the 70’s and 80’s moved away from bridge traffic (who knows why) and they are just in the last 5 years or so making big steps to take advantage of it again. The SF connection on the Chicago line is just North of Joliet at Bridge 198. Between there and Eola is the way some of the Logistics Park trains go. I have an updated map on the site that shows most things.
Dave
-The Elgin, Joliet & Eastern Archive & Email List -
http://www.ejearchive.com
Dave (DPD),
Would you know how much capacity is available between Joliet and Griffith ?
Dave:
My congradulations on a fantastic website.
It is informative, historic, and easy to use. You did a great job.
Without going thru and counting all of the trains, do you have any idea of how many trains operate daily between West Chicago and Joliet? The coal trains run :“as needed” which can be anywhere from daily to whatever.
The same with the Mattson - Griffith line.
A little more info for you.
NS runs trains 412/413 which are coal trains to Van Loon on the old Nickel Plate. Those pretty much run daily or very close to it.
NS also runs trains 882/883 and 884/885 to Van Loon. I am not sure the frequency of those trains but I would say at least one loaded per day of those two, possibly both per day. Those are really regulars. So, all in all about 3 loaded coal trains a day from NS. Does that sound correct? I would assume all coal trains go to US Steel, but I could be wrong. I have been told the 412 comes out of Pa. and the others WV.
Also, the 323/324 NS train is not quite correct. It is a 323 train daily. It runs from Wayne Yard, Fort Wayne to Van Loon and returns as 323. There is another NS train 324 which runs from Elkhart to Fort Wayne via the NYC line to IHB and down to Osborn. At one time the eastbound from Van Loon was symboled 324, now it is 323 both ways. 323 is an interesting train with the empty coil cars to the J, plus any other “region” freight, usually empties. The return 323 is usually solid steel coil cars. The train can vary from 10 to 75 cars. Usually turns at Van Loon at about 3pm.
ed
Thanks for the info, and glad you like the site. I have tons of more stuff to add, and hopefully that will happen often.
I’ll make the changes on the 323 train. As far as the coal trains… I had heard about one coal train that does go to USS Gary, but the symbol was unknown. I assume it’s probably one of the trains you mention. The only thing though is that the frequency you give seems like it would be a lot for the mills. That kind of frequency sounds more like a power plant run. So one of those might possibly be for State Line or another plant. USS collects different types of coal from various mines all over the country, and they interchange from various railroads. But I’ve never known them to be much more than a weekly or biweekly run on any one train. I’ll throw those symbols out on the email list and see if anybody knows more.
As far as train frequency over all… It’s very hard to say. I’m not in the area, but I sometimes listen to the audio stream that someone runs. There’s days I hear non-stop trains between West Chicago and Joliet, and other days where there’s barely anything.
Good question on the capacity between Griffith and Joliet. It’s double track from Matteson to Griffith with numerous crossovers, and there’s a three mile siding at Frankfort. I would guess at least 4 trains could hold with the main still open, but I’m not sure.
Dave
-The Elgin, Joliet & Eastern Archive & Email List -
http://www.ejearchive.com
Dave:
You may be correct about the coal trains. I really dont know where they are headed…just to the J at Van Loon. They do use the TOPGON hoppers for some of the trains, so perhaps it is lighter weight coal.
ed
I have noticed the BNSF trains on the EJ&E also. Most of them are heading to Logistics Park in Elwood, Illnois, just south of Joliet. Maybe BNSF traffic on EJ&E will increase when the new intermodal yard which is expected to be just north of Coal City is completed. This yard isn’t expected to be built for a while.
Didnt know about a new intermodal yard north of Coal City. Got any info on it?
I was out to the Logistics Park area last week…lots of truck traffic on the main road. I turned around and left as the line was long. I am sure BNSF wishes they had taken more of that land when it was available.
ed
Why would they build another intermodal yard between Logistics Park and Coal City (a distance of less than 9 miles) when they haven’t completely built-out Logistics Park? Right now they’re handling auto carriers and containers on the 621-acre site, with another 200 acres available.
In regards to the Santa Fe / EJ&E connection, there used to be one, all of the track has been torn up west of Weber Road, and east of Weber the rails remain, and the EJ&E (or someone) stores cars there (I know, because I can see them from my apartment) But if you check out Google Earth, you can see where the connection once was. Most of it is now bike trail, but east of Weber the rails are still there. From what I can tell by using Google Earth, that line ran west, then south to the SantaFe, where it seems to have connected to the Santa Fe, and also to a power plant that is there along the river, that doesn’t seem to have any rails to it, even though the BNSF runs just north of the property… maybe I am just missing the tracks… (A power plant served ONLY by barge??? is it possible?? Are they a captive shipper??? Where’s the comptetion??? … okay, I’ll stop)
Edited to add:: Okay, I noted that that connection might not have connected with the SF at all, but rather, ran to that aforementioned powerplant,… which is served by the BNSF from the SOUTH side of the river… (there appears to be a large conveyor structure that spans the river.) the tracks NORTH of the property appear to be CN/IC rails… So, ignore my previous ramblings… Although, curiously… it looks like that the tracks also may have gone NORTH of the EJE to Stateville Prison (No, I didn’t see any white “shackle box” box cars in the photo) Perhaps they ran coal hoppers there to serve the prision’s power plant, if it had one of it’s own? I’ll have to look in to that. Or maybe prisoner transport? (The prison was built in 1925) Who knows… but I will say this… Google Earth is a great program…
Tim, we went over this topic awhile back. That’s not the old ATSF it connects with, it’s the old Rock Island:
"…I know that crossing (Oakland Avenue). The junction there is known as “Rockdale Junction.” Except the track was taken up a few years ago. I believe parts of it have been “Trail-ized.”
It was a EJE spur that came up from the Rock Island line south of Joliet leaving the RI near the intersection of Larkin and Mound. It circled around the west side [of Joliet] in clockwise fashion (where it had some industrial customers), crossed the J mainline just west of the Oakland grade crossing you mention, and ended about a half-mile north at the south end of the Stateville Federal Penetentiary complex. I believe it was used mainly to haul coal for the [prison] steam plant in da old daze…"
There is a separate spur that runs along the river to the power plant.
For what it’s worth: Another line once broke west off the J’s power plant lead just north of Renwick Road and curled around back east (like half a figure-8), then west again right through where Lewis University sits. It ran almost straight west next to the airport, then farther west to serve a quarry (now landfill?) north of Renwick and east of Weber. The line continued west along the north border of Mistwood Golf Course, where part of the original grade still exists. The lakes on the golf course were once part of a limestone gravel mining operation on the site, also served by the EJE. The line continued straight west – ducking under what is now I-55 through a highway overpass (still there, but blocked off on both sides). The line ran into the vast network of gravel mines on the west side of I-55 (in those days, Route 66). The mine area was criss-crossed with rails – some of the grades through the mines are still visible on Google Earth. The also was anothe
DOH!!!.. You’re right PZ… confusion on my part… which, for me is fairly easy…
[quote user=“Poppa_Zit”]
Tim, we went over this topic awhile back. That’s not the old ATSF it connects with, it’s the old Rock Island:
"…I know that crossing (Oakland Avenue). The junction there is known as “Rockdale Junction.” Except the track was taken up a few years ago. I believe parts of it have been “Trail-ized.”
It was a EJE spur that came up from the Rock Island line south of Joliet leaving the RI near the intersection of Larkin and Mound. It circled around the west side [of Joliet] in clockwise fashion (where it had some industrial customers), crossed the J mainline just west of the Oakland grade crossing you mention, and ended about a half-mile north at the south end of the Stateville Federal Penetentiary complex. I believe it was used mainly to haul coal for the [prison] steam plant in da old daze…"
There is a separate spur that runs along the river to the power plant.
For what it’s worth: Another line once broke west off the J’s power plant lead just north of Renwick Road and curled around back east (like half a figure-8), then west again right through where Lewis University sits. It ran almost straight west next to the airport, then farther west to serve a quarry (now landfill?) north of Renwick and east of Weber. The line continued west along the north border of Mistwood Golf Course, where part of the original grade still exists. The lakes on the golf course were once part of a limestone gravel mining operation on the site, also served by the EJE. The line continued straight west – ducking under what is now I-55 through a highway overpass (still there, but blocked off on both sides). The line ran into the vast network of gravel mines on the west side of I-55 (in those days, Route 66). The mine area was criss-crossed with rails – some
[quote user=“Poppa_Zit”]
Tim, we went over this topic awhile back. That’s not the old ATSF it connects with, it’s the old Rock Island:
"…I know that crossing (Oakland Avenue). The junction there is known as “Rockdale Junction.” Except the track was taken up a few years ago. I believe parts of it have been “Trail-ized.”
It was a EJE spur that came up from the Rock Island line south of Joliet leaving the RI near the intersection of Larkin and Mound. It circled around the west side [of Joliet] in clockwise fashion (where it had some industrial customers), crossed the J mainline just west of the Oakland grade crossing you mention, and ended about a half-mile north at the south end of the Stateville Federal Penetentiary complex. I believe it was used mainly to haul coal for the [prison] steam plant in da old daze…"
There is a separate spur that runs along the river to the power plant.
For what it’s worth: Another line once broke west off the J’s power plant lead just north of Renwick Road and curled around back east (like half a figure-8), then west again right through where Lewis University sits. It ran almost straight west next to the airport, then farther west to serve a quarry (now landfill?) north of Renwick and east of Weber. The line continued west along the north border of Mistwood Golf Course, where part of the original grade still exists. The lakes on the golf course were once part of a limestone gravel mining operation on the site, also served by the EJE. The line continued straight west – ducking under what is now I-55 through a highway overpass (still there, but blocked off on both sides). The line ran into the vast network of gravel mines on the west side of I-55 (in those days, Route 66). The mine area was criss-crossed with rails – some of the grades through the mines are still visible on Google
Was this line known as “the Joliet quarry trackage of the Material Service Corporation ?” Who operated it, Material Service or the EJ&E?