Funny you brought that up. I actually did something very similar in my last move. My layout is on a 36’ wide hollow core door. At move time it had just the foam, a lot of roadbed, and some track laid. I bought another 36" door, some thin plywood, and did exactly that. Made sides of about 1’-0" high, screwed the sides to the two doors, and it did indeed turn out to be a sturdy but lightweight shipping box.
If TooBroke doesn’t build scenery too high (or if it were removable) the layout could easily be packed up for a move in this manner (first removing delicate stuff like buildings, of course).
Yes, actually, I’m working on Ntrak modules #7 and #8 this weekend, in fact.
I grew up with N scale, since my father converted to N in 1968 or so. And I’ll stick with my assessment of the scale: it’s too delicate, too finicky, and too tempermental for the run of the mill pre-teen.
It’s a great hobby for a kid, because you learn so much (together) while having fun (together). My father bought me Lionel at that age, and I still remember learning about carpentry and electricity and wiring and soldering from our work together on the layout. It was interesting enough that I later went into electrical engineering, and I certainly knew far more than my peers all through high school that weren’t involved in a hobby with a major electrical component.
I would not have recommended N for an 8 year old until reading the other responses. But now, I would say it depends on the abilities (hand-eye coordination) and desires of the kid. A 4ft x 6ft layout is about the minimum for a parent/child HO or O27 (Lionel) layout, but can be a lot of fun. Such a size fits nicely into 2 twin mattress cartons taped together when you move. The movers struggle a lot more when your layout is 8ft or longer, especially with the overseas crates - they are generally just under 8ft on the inside dimensions. N allows you to go smaller, or fit more “stuff” into the same size.
The most important part of the experience is to let your 8 year old do some of the construction and running himself, giving him only the minimum amount of guidance necessary for him to be successful. That’s how I learned to solder - my first attempts were massive blobs, but at least they made enough of a connection of the wire to the rail so the current flowed. Same with laying the track, mounting accessories, and so forth. Just being there watching Dad do it all is the sure path to boredom for the kid.
If you don’t have a particular modeling skill developed yourself, don’t worry about it. Setting the example of learning by doing will encourage your son to attempt new challenges and skills himself. As a teacher and youth leader, that is the one value I would really like to impart to today’s youth; to go out on a limb and try new games, hobbies, skills, etc, even at the risk of “failure” or “looking bad”.
Not for me. I was much happier in Lionel at eight.
Delicate may be a bit subjective, but N scale is still WAY more delicate than HO or the other large scales. It only takes a very slight pressure to pop out wheelsets or couplers, or to break off handrails, or to torsion snap track into oblivion. A little bit of that and I can see most kids being thrown off the hobby completely. Rember: human children are the single most destructive force in the Universe. That’s why Lionel stuff used to be built so tough: if it could survive a room full of seven year olds, it was built to LAST.
Simple physics. It takes less vertical seperation between track members to cause a derailment. It takes a smaller track gap to cause a derailment. It takes less “earth tremors” to cause a derailment. It takes less weight behind the engine to cause stringlining.
Another thought is a “fits under the bed layout”. Usually a low (very low - about 9-12 inches) platform about 39 inches by 75 inches will fit under most twin bed frames with head and foot boards (measure first!). A continuous run layout is possible in all 3 scales (O27, HO, N) in that space - the possibilites are much more numerous in N, but the trains are much smaller. The advantage of this size layout is storage, and moving - it fits in that twin bed mattress carton when the movers come.
I have not read all of the other responses, so forgive me if I repeat someone. The Woodland
Scenics products are a great learning tool. The first layout that I ever built was the WS Grand
Valley layout. It removed so much of the intimadation associated with scenery and track
laying. It will help him learn the skills he’ll need when he builds a huge layout one day.
Also, make no mistake, the Woodland Scenics layouts are pricey and these DO NOT go
together in a weekend! It took me months to build the Grand Valley(working mostly nights
and weekends). But, when it’s done, It’s a really nice, sceniked layout.
I believe the N scale version is called the “Scenic Ridge”. Just something to ponder.
Good luck and welcome aboard. Dave
Edit: If you do go this route, get the Track Pack and the Town and Factory Building Kit.
These buildings are DPM kits and are very nice when painted and assembled.
I’m starting to sound like a commercial for Woodland Scenics, so I shut up[:D]. Good luck, Dave
Yes, kids can be destructive. Some more than others. But I think human adults are still the benchmark.
Wow, sorry to hear about all the issues you’ve had with your layout. [:0][;)]
And this sums up my biggest issue with your replies - Your generalization that N-scale is “generally too delicate for most pre-teens”. I agree that it’s not always going to be a good fit for some children (both scale and hobby), but I don’t think I’d go so far as to make such a statement. Let the parents look it over and decide for themselves if they think their kids have a chance of handling that size - or the hobby in general. And there’s enough older N-scale equipment on the market that I think would make it generally cheaper than HO. But then there is the debate over whether it’s a good idea to start someone out on cheap equipment. If that’s the case, then it’s going to get expensive no matter what scale they go with.
The two comments you made about children being so destructive is interesting. It makes me wonder if you’ve had some bad experiences with children (perhaps your own?) and your N-scale equipment. Yeah, my son has run a couple of trains into the buffers too hard, initially struggle
I am Air Force enlisted and built several layouts for a charity raffle when I was stationed at Offutt AFB, NE. We built HO and N gauge, with most everyone liking the N gauge for the reasons you stated. Here are my suggestions:
Go with N gauge, even though I model in HO, I think that the current N gauge products are outstanding.
Use folding “banquet table” legs under the layout, it can be folded quickly and stored under the bed or against a wall.
Even though you have ties to North Dakota (Minot?), get the roadnames/engines that your son is interested in. It will keep his interest going and cause him to treasure it more.
The Kato unitrack is a great idea but regular track will work just as well. Ask your son what he wants on the layout, then come back here or to the layout forum and ask the questions on to build it!
The guys over on http://www.esthershobby.com are having a “flood sale” (half-off of selected items) recently. These are all things that were salvaged when their shop was flooded last year. I’ve picked up quite a bit of this stuff, and with a little cleaning, it’s as good as new. Of course if you don’t clean off the dirt, you don’t have to weather it
I know I’m a couple of months late with my reply (g) but just read the post. I am now retired military, and was stationed in Italy for 3 years, which is where I got into trains. I started with HO, which was a real pain to move. I ended up selling the layout, but keeping the locos and cars. When i arrived at my new locale, I had to start fresh with a new layout and needed to replace some cars that were either damaged or ‘missing.’ This is fine if you have the money, however I switched to N and had no ‘move related’ losses to the trains or layout. As with everything in the military, keep your boxes, receipts, and photos for claims time later. the advice for turning the layout into a shipping crate is a good one, but if you notify the HHG office/movers of your special equipment, they can build a shipping crate to meet your needs.
Finally, find out from your son what HE wants. If he gets N and wanted HO, he’ll be disappointed, and vis-versa. Rather than buying/building him a layout, take him shopping with you so you can see what attracts him. After years of experimentation, I discovered that, for me, it’s all about the layout/scenery/buildings, and the process. The trains are almost an excuse to build.
maxi morgan-no longer haze gray and underway
The advantage of starting now, in Germany, is your access to equipment which would otherwise be prohibitively expensive to import. The few HO pieces i
If you decide to go with N scale, one of the best “starter” layouts around is the Havaphew Central, from the March 2005 issue of Model Railroader. It’s 2.5’ x 5’ and can be done completely with sectional track. I built this layout for an oversized coffee table, and it is a lot of fun.
