I was reading one of the posts on sound and a couple of things came to mind.
First, let me say that I may be in the minority, but I’m not overly turned on by sound. I don’t mind it particlurarily, but it’s not the first thing I’m looking for when I order a locomotive. I’m far more intertested in crisp paint jobs, detail and good running mechanisms.
During my operating sessions I have a number of mainline trains that leave staging, pull into the main yard and either drop off and pick up blocks of cars, or in the case of my intermodal and coal trains, simply tie-up for a “crew change”. The locomotives pulling these trains run once in an evening and I’m not going to pay $100 or more extra so they are sound equipped. Not for the short time they’re out of staging.
The only place I’d consider sound would be for my local or yard engines. Having said that, I can tell you that we’ve had a number of sessions where one of the members has brought over a sound equipped diesel. It’s fun for a while, but everntually it starts to get annoying. It’s not just me. I’ve heard comments at the end of the evening like “Peace at last!” and “Ah, that’s better. I can hear myself think.” I can hardly imagine spending the evening in a layout room with every engine sound equipped.
I believe the problem is that sound in locomotives is often set too loud by the owner and combined with the talking, occassional laughter, sound of the trains rolling along and other assorted noises in the basment (heating or air conditioning), it just adds to background noise.
Aside from that, I know of two members in our group that have experienced problems with sound equipped engines. I don’t want to start a long discussion about whether or not everyone has had a problem or not. I just want to make the point that after ordering two engines with sound and then returning them, one of the members won’t touch them again.
And, in the last meeting we had something happen that I’ve read about in this for
If you have read the posts you mention, than you know opinions vary considerably, just as they do about DCC vs analog. We should all take the responsibility for setting our priorities when we invest time and money, so I agree with you. As hedonistic as it sounds, this hobby should be about a derivation of happiness, all things being equal.
I have had some iffy moments with decoders, myself, and all but two are QSI. I also believe that the fault, at least in my incidents, are of my doing. So far, I have only had one failure, and that was with a Soundtraxx 100LC, now subbed with a Tsunami. I can’t say enough about the Tsunami.
BLI, of which I have four different locos, all come with the volume set at the maximum possible at the factory, and I suspect it is just efficient to do that…although I can’t for the life of me understand how or why. I immediately reduce the master volume by about 40% for starters, and then fine tune the individual sounds to suit me. As far as I am concerned, no locomotive 10 scale miles away will compete with the one in my yard only 100 scale meters away. At full volume they do.
As for even thinking about running a train without sound, that is sort of like driving without air conditioning on a hot day; you can do it, but why?
WHAT DID YOU SAY GLEN? I COULNT HEAR YOU…WERE YOU SAYING SOMETHING ABOUT SOUND?
Sorry, couldnt help it. Funny you mention that about the sound, and its true, once you get more than 3 or 4, its hard to hear anything. Plus its it becomes hard to hear the engine your running, which, sorta defeats the purpose. I ran into that once I got more than one engine. When I run my 1956 era, I have 4 sound engines on a one time and to make it worse, 3 of them are steamers. I turned all the sounds down quite a bit, maybe say 50-60% of the original volume. It makes so much nicer that way. I found with the volume down there was a point when I walked up to a section of the layout (I have a 15-18ft garage based) I could hear that one engine, say working a paticular industry.
I have only been in club or large perosnal layout with mutilple operators a few times. For me, If you can hear the sound more than your cord can reach (maybe 8 feet) its too loud. Not fair to others and will start to create the bar room effect. (Everyone keeps getting louder to out do the other guy)
Then there was the time we I had everythign cranked up to full volume for a show our club did at a train show. Its like 130 am, everyone is a sleep, house has been is dead quite for hours. I unpacked and for grins fired up the layout. My old MRC prodigy would activate the sound upon turnin on the power. All 6 of my sound engines turned on at oncd and I about soiled my pants…
Oh, I also have to mention about the QSI sound/control systems such as BLI or Altas. I have some of my sound engines for a couple years, (My Cab Forward for one) and they have been solid for me at home. it has been on DC, and under the spell of 5 different DCC control systems
I had my CF go nutty once on me while sitting on the club layout. But, I think it was something done on the track, such as someone trying to program on the main or goofed a number code that set it off. Which, would still mean something from the outside messed with it. Here at home, they have been the most solid, relaible DCC engines I have over the past 2.5 years.
Of course, now I am off to find the biggest peice of wood I can,
Any number of problems have happened when using sound and most models need to be turned down to be in scale or not heard when they are at the other end of the layout.
Sound is a great feature overall and adds to a set of units on a siding. The real ones are not norm
I have maybe 20 or so sound equipped engines on the layout now, in my little 10x10 room, and keeping them turned down is very necessary. I am trying to work out a volume standard for myself, much the way I have an engine that I use as a standard to set the speed for all the others so they can be MU’ed. That said, I want all my locomotives to have sound. I think having to use horn and bell signals really adds something. I thought of just doing some of them, but then I have to keep track of which ones have sound and which don’t. I’d rather just do them all and then I can set up any consist I like without worrying about it. I am not made of money so it will probably be years before I get all my locomotives equipped, but I’m having fun doing it. Every time I put sound in one of my older engines it’s like it’s brand new again.
Thanks to all who commented on my post. It seems that we’re pretty much in agreement on the idea of keeping the sound to a reasonable level.
Actually, our group was discussing this one night and one of the members made what I thought was a very good point. He said that when we’re standing 2 or 3 feet from an HO scale engine, we’re actually the equivalent of hundreds of feet from it. So, if it’s an engine at idle, we should barely hear anything from it at all. Using that as a guideline, turning the sound down considerably from the common factory set levels makes a lot of sense.
In answer to the question “You can run without it, but why would you?”, I can only repeat that not everyone is impressed enough by sound to want to pay the difference. For the extra cost of a couple of engines with sound I can get another new engine. To me, for now, that’s a better deal.
I imagine this will soon be a mute point. A few years ago it was unusual to get a new engine with any decoder factory installed. Sound decoders, where available, were an after market option. Now, it’s getting harder to find new engines without a decoder and sound decoders are being factory installed more often. I suspect it’s just a matter of time before most new locomotives come with sound decoders. Sooner or later it gets cost effective for manufacturers to just put the same part in every unit. It streamlines the production process.
Glen, you are absolutely right! If another locomotive is the principle aim, and equipping it with sound would preclude it, then the way ahead is clear. Believe me, I know what it is like desiring a new locomotive and having to make choices about how to get it. The smart person understands her limitations, whether self-imposed or imposed from without, and acts accordingly.
Turning the sound way down makes all the difference. You want people to hear the loco when they are right next to it, but the sound needs to be all but gone from your hearing if the loco is out of sight in some other part of the layout. I find 30-40% of full volume is about right.
Another thing to keep in mind is to keep repetitive sounds especially low, like the bell. If you don’t it will get on people’s nerves in a big hurry. I set the bell to 10-15% of full volume for this reason.
A whistle or horn carries very well in real life, and it’s very intermittent, so I keep it at about 40-50% of full volume.
We have the sound locos on the Siskiyou Line set to these levels and running sound locos is a real joy. Only the engineer running the sound loco really notices the sound, and only when two sound-equipped lashups pass each other do you really notice the sound in each other’s train.
I also set the Soundtraxx decoders to only come on when the loco address is assigned to a throttle, and when the loco address is de-assigned, the sound automutes in 60 seconds.
By using these guidelines for setting the sound levels, we’ve run sound equipped locos on the layout now for two or three years and I have yet to receive a “sound is getting on my nerves” complaint from any of my operators. [swg]
In fact, the only complaint I have heard is: “when are you going to get sound in the rest of your loco lashups? I really miss not having sound in this loco set …”
I would totally agree with the keep it low arguement in a controlled environment like a train room (we Brits don’t have basements [:(]).
On the other hand many of us on this side of the Atlantic take our portable layouts to public exhibitions. There is a world of difference here. When opertaing sound equipped engines in a noisy public venue you need to turn the volume right up to 90 or 100%. The overall effect is generally similar to operating in a smaller quiet train room, with the sound only carrying to people immediately around the model.
Personally, I love engines with sound, and will be converting all of mine as time and cash flow allows. And I’m possibly in the minority, in that I like 'em LOUD and in GROUPS.
Let’s face it, we’re modeling an industry that IS loud, VERY loud. Ever stood next to a three diesel lashup when they try to start a heavy train out of a valley? Or stand in the cab of a 4-6-2 for six hours? or me, replicating that part of the rail scene is just as important as ballasting track or weathering boxcars.
I love steam: the bigger and noiser, the better. One reason I model steam is because I was born too late to experience “real” steam firsthand. For years, I always thought that there was something lacking with my steamers. And then I bought a BLI heavy 2-8-2, and realized that it was the sound (I’d like steam too, but that’s unrealistic in anything smaller than rideable live steam). On my last layout, I used to turn on the power just to listen to four of my sound equipped steamers percolating on the ready tracks.
Of course, I like heavy metal music too, so that might play a part in my love of “noise”! I’ve noticed that most modelers who prefer a quiet layout like easy listening [:-P]
Thats funny. I have found myself doing the same thing. I have 3 BLI steam engines and I have found myself sitting listening to all 3 idle away in the yard. I find myself putting my head down close to the tracks, closeing my eyes and trying to imagine I am standing in real yard. All the noises and sounds.
Yeah, yeah I know… Not the same thing, but most likley as close as I will ever get. At 31, I was born too late to ever enjoy big steam.
Your’re right. The sound needs to be subdued, especially if there is more than one locomotive in operation. In my experience in the “real” world, only the horn/whistle should be heard beyond the immediate area of a train.
I don’t have any locos with sound and can easily do without it. I have an MRC Synchro-sound system that I use from time to time, but it gets annoying quite quickly.
Funny thing about sound. What you hear at 100 feet is not the same as at 1,000 feet. I too, reduce the volume to about half, then fine tune the various sounds. When I set up some modules at home in a finished sheetrock room I have them way down, and was just at a big show and could just barely hear them. Must remember to turn them up for the next show! But some like cake, others prefer pie. To each their choice! jc5729
I keep all of my HO ones at about 70% becuase I have dismanteled my HO layout in favor of an N scale layout. so the only times I run my Sound units is at the Model Railroad club and that can get noisey becuase almost everyone there has got a sound unit and will run it. I usually have my C40-8 sitting in the yard Idleing becuase its fun to watch the little kids come in and look at it and say “that sounds just like the real thing”. Engines with sound get more attention than engines without sound. But then again so do my Engines with working Strobe lights. I think that anything that isn’t “normal” gets more attention than engines that have no Lighting effects or sound.
Having 4 units working together in a consist is one thing. Having several locomotives shouting away in a group where it is impossible to talk is quite something else.
Ususally the engines are “Off” unless they are out and running. Some engines have a special sound state where they are resting that is no where as loud.
I usually turn down sounds where there is alot of hissing or whistling, bells. Those get bothersome at times. I hear the train go by nearby for 10 minutes hooting once. Then I go to model videos and hear hooting from one end of the tape to the other… I say LAY off that whistle!
But for me some sounds such as the EBT 2-8-2 in real life will never be boring or bothersome or the chant of a idling prime mover.
One can be quite tired after several hours straight with sound engines. In flight simulator when one kills the 4 engines on a B-17 after a flight… Ahhh… peace.
Sound is useful. The 8 or so engines in my roster all have a different voice, particularly the whistles. When I toot… no… blast the whistle on the 2-10-2 the HUAAA! Leaves no doubt as to which engine is “Talking” where the whistle of the 4-4-0 might lend a little contrast.
The 2-10-2 is definately the next generation of QSI engines that have increased abilities such as a function key to drift the sound on a downhill grade for example.
Ive decided to modify my volume requirements just a little bit. I think what I will do is set my camcorder to listen to an engine at 8 feet and adjust the sound until I can just barely hear it. Remember that I can run the audio on my computer with headphones at a suitable Db volume so that I will come pretty close to what a hearing person will hear.
It will assist some future videos in which I plan to have a lead engine in front and a helper at the rear of the train which may not total more than 15-20 cars. Kind of unsettling to hear the lead engine “BEHIND” the camera working around again.
The one thing that determines my decision to calm down the volumes a little bit is that at some point in the future a 12 stall roundhouse will be built in one corner, having these 9 engines quietly steaming in low volumes will be much easier to live with.
I was exercising my ABBA units recently and noticed that the body on all 4 units were viberating with the grill shaking and the handrails rattling… we dont need em quite that loud.
I remember when the UP Challenger came through Pine Bluff. The whistle shook the very ground from 30 feet away.
I have about 10 dcc engines and 8 of them have sound. The first thing I do to a new engine, well… actually the second thing after making sure it runs ok… is turn the sound DOWN. About 50% is right for me. If I’m working on something in my layout room I do find that a sound equipped engine runing in the background is distracting and I’ll either shut it down or mute it. I’m also in a modular club that exhibits in large public areas now and then. When the crowds start to come in most sound equipment is drowned out by them unless it is turned up very loud and then, as you with sound locos know, the sound usually isn’t as good.
I think you’ll find only a few modelers that like sound turned waaaay up. I’ve only met one so far.