I’ve read that the Tsumani is going to be great. And that the DSD it replaces was also very good. But no one seems to say anything good about Soundtraxx’s LC decoders.
I have a very small switching layout …2’ X 14’ approximately. My small diesel HO switchers drill cars about the layout.
Are LC decoders really that “disappointing,” like I have read? I have no tenders to mount speakers in, anyway (though someday I may try a cow/calf setup). I do realize that BLI is producing a NW/SW type engine (when will it actually be available?). But, I’d really like to put sound in my other engines. Are the LC’s really that bad?
I use the LC Diesel sound decoders and am happy with them. I also have used the full DSD sound decoder, and although it was nice, the price difference did not make it that nice, IMO. Of course, I’m speaking of diesel sound … I can’t speak to the steam sound decoders since I don’t use them.
Sure, if you connect the decoder up to a sound system with an amp, you can tell the difference. But hey, I run on a layout with lots of locos using sound, and so I keep the volume fairly low.
Lots of sound equipped locos running together on a layout gets really annoying if everything’s turned up. Plus it’s not realistic. At our typical viewing distances, the loco sound would not be as loud as if we were standing right next to the loco.
Once you get a layout full of sound equipped locos all going at once, the LC decoders sound just fine to me. I can tell there is a diesel throb, I can blow the horn or ding the bell, and I’m happy. Of course I use all EMD diesels, so the generic diesel sounds good for them. It would sound wrong for an Alco, Baldwin or FM diesel.
But run a “silent” loco lashup and you notice the lack of sound right away. It just seems to be “broken” or “lacking life”.
I have installed the LC decoder in a spectrum (Bachmann) shay. I found the quality of sound to be a little disappointing. The speaker enclosure is not big enough to get good tone and the audio amplifier doesn’t have quite enough power. I did a careful installation and used a replacement speaker from Tony’s to get the best possible sound from the unit. Still not as good as the dsx or the DSD and no where near as loud or good sounding as the BLI. Therer were other posters in an old thread about this decoder that had good luck with larger enclosures.
I think that you might want to wait for the Tsunami if possible. If the installation is at all time comsuming, you will want to use the best possible decoder. What is your time to install worth???
It is Broadway or nothing as far as I am concerned. I have heard a few soundtraxx engines run and it seems they have to shut off one sound before firing another. When my M1a goes up that 3%er with that “Snort” from the load along with the air pump and the water filling the boiler topped with the dynamo all going at once it kinds of puts Broadway at the top of the sound heap. (Or QSI rather)
I’ve installed several SoundTraxx LC decoders and have found that the biggest difference between them and the DSD to be the speaker power output, and the fact that the LC decoders will power only one speaker. The LC decoders don’t have as powerful an amplifier as the DSD and soon-to-be Tsunami, which could power two speakers. The only LC decoder I have not had good luck with is the one to fit into the Bachmann Spectrum Shay, and that is because the speaker has to be so small and is in such a cramped location that it cannot be properly baffled.
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I heard an LC mounted unit in an HO Kato GE and was dissappointed.
The reason:
To me the sound had none of the intensity that you would hear from a QSI equippedI locomotive. The bell was loud and clear, but the “diesel engine” sound was rather subdued, especially considering that GE’s have a pronounced, distinctive “Chug-Chug” when idling.
The horn was a pleasant sounding mult-chimer (Nathan K5LA) but did not have the “intensity” at high or low volume. Even after my friend adjusted the sound levels the clearest and sharpest sound was the bell.
Based on “What I’ve Heard” the better choice for more intense sound is the Soundtraxx DSX decoder as it has a more powerful amplifier than what is on an LC decoder. You have to use a DSX in conjunction with a standard decoder like a Digitrax 163. I’ve heard the Soundtraxx DSX before and IMHO, it is impressive and attention getting!
This is only my opinion as I’m a “tad picky” when it comes to locomotive sound. A gentleman at my LHS had an LC decoder installed in his P2K E-unit as was very satisfied with it.
See if you can find an LHS or a club where customers or membe
Jim,
The NW/SW switchers from BLI have been out for some time now.
Go to eBay and search for Broadway Limited Switchers and you’ll find a good number up for bids. This is as of 3:00 P.M. today.
I have a Soundtraxx LC installed in one of my diesels and it sounds great. PERIOD.
I also have a BLI N&W class A 2-6-6-4 (which uses QSI) that sounds great. I run them seperate and the same time and am happy with both. I guess I am not that picky… I just like having the sound.[tup]
My LC equipped F2 A/B set is set up so that the B component is dummied and contains dual speakers. It sounds just fine. On the other hand, the same guy installed the same decoder in my Heritage 0-6-0, and the lone speaker in the tender is almost terrible by comparison.
The decoder is not that bad, really, but it has two principle faults: doesn’t regulate the motor well from CV 9 on PWM, and it doesn’t sound great through a lone speaker in a small tender.
I recently installed a steam LC decoder in a Walthers rotary snowplow and a diesel one in a LifeLike Budd RDC. I was able to fit a 1" speaker in both. I thought the sound of the diesel was a very good 1st generation EMD sound, not much different from higher priced Soundtraxx decoders I’ve used. Gives you the same choice of 3 horns and adjustable bell rate.
The steam sound is good overall, but the idling sounds are no where near as good as BLI / QSI equipped engines but for the rotary that I only use once in a while, it’s fine. Choice of 3 whistles, and I was able to synchronize the chugs with the rotary spin pretty well. I plan on installing a diesel LC decoder in at least one or two more of my diesels.[:)]
Jim,
The Soundtraxx LC decoders are pretty good. Not as good as BLI/QSI, but adequate for most applications. I have the diesel version installed in several F-units and one E. I have the steam type in a Spectrum K-4 4-6-2 and it sounds good. I’ll be installing one in a N&W J 4-8-4 I’m giving the grandson for Christmas. I think the most critical part of any sound installation is the speaker. The bigger the better. One drawback is the size of the LC decoder. It makes for a tight squeeze in many switchers. I’m happy with the LC decoders I have installed. The motor control isn’t the greatest, but it is adequate for freight ops or hi-speed passenger locos. Adequacy is in the ear of the beholder! Give them a try. At current prices, it isn’t a major investment except in the time it takes to install.
Good luck, whatever you decide.
With the new pricing from Soundtraxx, you would be much better off getting a Tsunami, or using a DSX series sound only decoder and a qualtiy motor/lighting decoder. The LC series decoders are lacking many of the sounds that the DSX series decoders have, and the motor control ranks somewhere between terrible and horrible. If a buzzing sound from your locomotive (the PWM is too low in frequency), lack of any sort of speed control, and poor quantity of sounds is your thing, then the LC is just fine. Personally, I would rather use the cheap MRC sound decoder than a Soundtraxx LC, the motor control is better and the sounds are more plentiful… [;)]
Yes, CV9 does allow you to adjust the PWM frequency. The problem is the way the PWM works with these decoders, it doesn’t matter where you set the value in CV9, you will still an audible hum from the motor. CV9 simply changes the hum from a low frequency buzz, to a higher frequency squeal. I have many older friends who cannot hear the buzz, so depending upon the state of your hearing, you may or may not be bothered by this.
Buzzing aside, the motor control is still a mess compared with other decoders that have some sort of BEMF or dither for low speed operation. Soundtraxx will be updating this decoder as time goes by, and the engineers there are aware of the issues people are having with these decoders. Funny thing is, I have actually used a DSD-90LC series sound decoder in a large scale Accucraft #2 Goose, but I am not using the motor control outputs for anything in that application. So I guess if you wanted to use it this way, many of the drawbacks would be eliminated.
I have the LC decoder in my Bachmann shay and love it. I think the people who ba***he LC decoders are either jealous, stupid, or haven’t tried one. Maybe all three? What I like about the Tsunami is that it can be put in an automatic mode, where it will make all the sounds it’s supposed to make WHEN it’s supposed to make them, and never touch a button. It’s all controlled with the throttle. The 80 buck price tag and the programmability also make the Tsunami very attractive.
I’m not sure if I want to take this personally or not, but just in case I was supposed to… I don’t think I’m jealous of a guy who bought a cheap sound decoder, I certainly don’t consider myself stupid, and I have tried an LC series decoder and found the experience to be lacking in many ways. While your experience with your Shay has been good, I wager to guess most people will not be installing this decoder in a die-cast locomotive (remember plastic resonates bad sounds differently than die-cast does), and they will not like the PWM issue.
So the moral to the story is, please don’t make slanderous remarks about other people and their opinions just because you want to defend a product you own. People come to these forums for information, and nothing I posted about the LC was incorrect or misleading (and there are hundreds of posts that support my remarks). If you want to pick an element from my post you find incorrect and debate it, I would gladly do so, but keep the remarks about other peoples intelligence (especially people you don’t know) to yourself… [;)]
On30Shay, why are you posting a comment like this? [V] It’s unprovoked and uncalled for. We’re all on the same side here…we like sound! [:-^]
Some of the people that have chimed in, myself included, have heard the LC decoders. No hints of jealosy, stupidity, or ignorance at all. Just like purchasing an automobile, ALL model railroad products have their positive and negative points. What’s been done here is the expression of positive and negative points regarding these units…that’s it. Not mud slinging.
I’m not an expert by any means. In my case I have ACTUALLY heard the differences myself. The LC is not a bad decoder, but based on MY HEARING, (as well as written info) the Soundtraxx DSX offers the same sounds as an LC but at a slightly more robust output. due to a more powerful amplifier. This compares to a person at home listening to the stereo playing at a very low volume level and then he hits the “Bass or Loudness” button. Immedietly noticeable is that the volume stays the same, but the sound comes through more powerfully. So, that’s it. No jealousy of any kind. The downside to the DSX is that it must be used with a motor control decoder, so sticking a pair of decoders and a speaker inside of an Atlas Alco S1 or an Athearn SW 7 may be quite a challenge.[:0]
I am entirely convinced that you find people who don’t agree with your choices stupid. My IQ is rated at 150, I teach at the university level, and I have used two of the LC decoders. They are limited in what functions they offer compared to the more costly ones, sound tinny in my 0-6-0, and make that same loco groan no matter what setting I use in CV 9. If the decoder has those characteristics, and you find it acceptable, I can see why you would think I am stupid.
Well I hope they sound OK. I’ve have an LC decoder and just installed it along with a speaker and enclosure in an Athearn CF7. It looks like I could have cramed in a larger speaker than what I did. I don’t even have DCC yet as I’m waiting for my NCE PowerCab starter set to come in. Bruce