South Shore Line - Monon Branch Opens

The Cardinal stops at Lafayette, but it’s very slow

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If only there is a passenger train routed that way, oh wait…..

Amtrak is 58 minutes longer than Google says it takes to drive with no traffic. The no traffic is a big if.

Is this advocating a return of the Hoosier service via revival of a route that has been trail-converted, serving a region different from what the Cardinal provides?

The Hoosier service was famously cancelled due to a lack of political will for its funding. Has that actually changed?

Be interesting to see what the route alignment (and stops) would permit with ‘clean sheet’ track graded and installed with a modern TLM…

I strongly disagree that HSR gives people freedom. It actually destroys freedom.

It is great for those few who would like to take a day trip to Detroit (???). But for those who want to use their earned money for something else it hampers achieving their chosen goal. HSR is overwhelmingly a money pit that must be filled by taxing the general population. This taxation significantly reduces people’s choices as to what they may do. That is a destruction of freedom, not a creation of freedom.

If a wage earner wants to spend his/her earnings on new fishing gear instead of day trips to other cities that should be his/her choice. He/she should not be forced by the government to help pay for someone else’s trip.

There certainly are legitimate government functions (i.e. public safety) that require some taxation. Helping to buy train tickets for other peoples’ recreation is definitely not a legitimate government function.

Public transportation is the means of getting people around for whatever purpose they choose, pleasure or business-related.

Then to be consistent in a position as a libertarian, you should support user fees (tolls) for all highways and streets. And the full cost of air travel should be borne by users. And if some folks feel wars of choice are wrong, they should not have to pay taxes for that purpose. Let’s see how that works for you.

The whole underlying premise of your argument is that by investing in High Speed Rail that society has to forgo investments in other areas (a tradeoff). What if High Speed rail is more a supplement vs a tradeoff? What if high speed rail boosts GDP that the losses are more than covered by increased mobility and increased GDP. Also, the role of government is also to improve the economic well being of it’s citizens via increased income / job opportunities (improved living standards). One of the reasons the Fed has the unemployment rate target. Fed Chairman Powell actually has said that to Congress several times over, something to the effect of “I do the unemployment rate, it’s your job to boost incomes”. Congress gets confused at times and thinks the Fed should do everthing.

Through history transportation has been a political mess. An example was the creation of national highways. A big fight over whether the federal government should be involved in that.

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Over many years in a non-partisan way, Congress has largely abandoned its responsibilities and ceded authority to the executive branch

Still one of my favorite quotes:

“A central theme of this book is that railroads, throughout their history, were so important to the US economy that politicians could not leave them alone, and when governments did intervene in transportation markets, they usually made a mess of things.”

Gallamore, Robert E.; Meyer, John R.. American Railroads: Decline and Renaissance in the Twentieth Century (p. 17). Harvard University Press. Kindle Edition.

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Well…YES.

I reason that all controlled access roads such as the Interstate System should be supported by tolls. I see local streets and roads differently because they serve multiple purposes that make communities possible. They’re how public safety services reach locations, they’re how utility repair crews get to where they need to be, they’re how children get to schools, etc.

Yes, the full cost of air travel should be borne by users. (I could bend a bit on that and, for example, allow tax support to link remote, isolated Alaskan settlements with the rest of the US.)

I don’t support allowing people to selectively not pay taxes. We are privileged to live in a representative constitutional republic. If our elected government decides to tax and spend, we have to pay. Then we can change the elected officials at the next election. I would have quit paying for a a whole lot of government garbage a long time ago if selective non-payment was allowed.

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Some Libertarians suggest taxes are merely a sanctioned appropriation of wealth, hence proposals to eliminate the income tax and estate taxes.

Thoreau went to jail for not paying taxes he felt violated his conscience on slavery and the Mexican,-American War, a war of choice.

A governmental entity without revenue - that flies like a lead anchor.

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Merely pointing out that however logical, the initial premise is fatally flawed so that these believers cherry pick their way to chaos and anarchy.

I suspect that is about to change but time will tell if the pendulum swings back I suspect we have to endure some more pain first. As long as we are on that topic and this topic.

Why was this branch not extended to the destination city of Lowell? I read somewhere the plans originally were to build to St. John and Cedar Lake. Apparently those two are being chatted about for “phase II” now but no mention of Lowell? How is this branch ever going to reach Indianapolis with this slow rate of progress? :grinning_face:

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The movement to institute a federal income tax began in the 1880’s. Came to fruition in 1913 with only “the rich” paying 1%. In reflection I’ve seen that as part of the Industrial Revolution. The shift from an agrarian economy where much of the population was tied to the land, were one with ownership as part of life, and taxation of property… to urbanization where being employees lead to income and its taxation. Most people in our era are trained to be employees, depend on impersonal systems for livelihood, and have little truly grounded understanding of ownership in the basic, traditional sense in my view.

Something that a lot of people (not referring to anyone here) mistake about my position and those of others who share my opinions is that they believe that I would rather that government not exist. Government does have a purpose, and it does, more or less, fill that purpose. The issue seems to be that government, by its very nature, has another purpose: expanding.

Gramp: Perhaps Henry George’s ideas and plan would have appealed to you?

Mark: Western notions of modern semi-democratic governance developed in trading cities in the late medieval periods. See the Hanse League.

Good government is dependent on informed voters and enforcement of ethics for officials elected and appointed. The latter principle seems to have lapsed.

Ooh, I gots some reading to do!

Long ago I lived near Bremen, isn’t that the Hanseatic League? I remember the seal, gosh it is on Beck’s Beer Cans as well I think.