Southern Indiana & Illinois Coal

[nanaimo73]

QUOTE: Originally posted by MP173

Lets write our own book!

Great conversation. It is good to see that Southern Illinois has something going for it. For years it has been a pretty tough area to earn a living.

Ed, I think you will enjoy this. 64 pages worth.
http://www.illinoisbiz.biz/NR/rdonlyres/1C724CC6-E056-41A4-836C-1CC8A74BF710/0/The_Illinois_Coal_Industry_2004.pdf

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by MP173

So what is the routing from Carlinville to Coffeen?

In looking at my IDOT map, it would appear that train would go south on the UP (ex CNW line). But how does it get from that line to the old NKP line to Coffeen?

ed

If memory serves, from the mine to Litchfield, ex CNW to BNSF to Sorrento, NKP NS to Ameron’s plant, I think…haven’t been home for awhile…

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by samfp1943

Thanks, for all the good responses; I am getting a rounded education on the Southern Illinois area ,and Indiana to boot. As I stated previously, I knew that there was some shaft mining and pit mining in the area, but was unfamiliar with what type of coal was available.It now seems to be a more common practice to mix low sulphur coal [PRB coal] with a high sulphur grade and create a useable, less sulphurous product for firing coal generation. I did not know that there were quantities produced in unit train volumes. Appreciate it.
Sam

FWIW, about a month or so ago, an Illinois state representative from that area with support from the governor wanted to introduce a bill requiring Illinois power plants to use more Illinois coal. I don’t know if the bill went anywhere, but one of the benefits was much lower mercury emissions than PRB coal.

[Anonymous]

Another thing, Illinois coal is much lower in moisture than PRB, it may be cheap, but having to vaporize 30 tons of water per car and send that out the stack, can be less cost effective…and 8000 BTU vs 11500…

[CNSR4500]

Thanks for the info so far!

Did the C&NW really reach SOUTHERN Illinois? I thought they were confined around Chicago…

Chicago & Illinois Midland counts, I believe they are middle to southern Illinois.

I’m fascinated by the railroads that usually aren’t thought of as “coal-haulers”, let alone running through southern Illinois.

I guess a map of coal fields and mining operations with railroad lines on it is next in order. Then a scouring of whatever has been written for references to the region and its coal traffic.

It has taken me 15 years of similar research on the Cincinnati Southern Railway (CNO&TP) and the Susquehanna to have as much data as I currently have. This sounds like a bigger project.

Adam

[MP173]

CNW had a line from Nelson, Il down to St. Louis. There was (is) coal in western Central Illinois.

ed

[Tharmeni]

The IC hauled a lot of coal between Southern Illinois and Indy.

[CNSR4500]

Nice to see this thread still exists! I checked my book on the C&IM, and they certainly did interchange with C&NW. And I read that C&NW acquired Litchfield & Madison to acquire an entry into St. Louis, plus L&M had some coal traffic, too.

Apparently, C&EI and CB&Q both purchased 2-10-2’s specifically for their coal traffic. And, of course, C&IM also settled on the 2-10-2 for the same reasons. Seems that MILW tried their 2-6-6-2’s and eventually settled on using Mikes.

According to what I read in Trains, Indiana Railroad operates former IC and CN (ex-MILW, ex-CTH&SE) trackage.

I remember reading that Illinois consumed most of its own coal production, that is one reason it is not usually associated with mining like KY, WV, and PA are.

I wonder if someone has a website up on this topic.

Back to the books.

Adam

“If the women don’t find you handsome, they should at least find you handy.”

[Ishmael]

There are coal mines all over southern Illinois. The coal is being hauled by rail and it is being blended with powder river coal at the power plants. The EPA limits are such that Illinois coal blended properly with powder river coal is ok and it brings the cost down.

Last week I was near Carlinville IL and a NS unit train was waiting to load at a mine near there. The mine is a large strip mine and is using flood loaders with a loop track.

My Father said the Illinois coal is also being exported and trains are running to New Orleans.

Mike in Tulsa
BNSF Cherokee Sub

Southern Illinois is almost all coal. Some years ago, an army buddy of mine who worked for Bucyrus-Erie in Milwaukee, got an letter of introduction to a strip mine near DuQuoin, serviced by the IC. At that time, the world’s largest drag shovel was working there, and we were allowed to drive down into the pit. When we got down, we were in the center of the earth, so it seemed. The shovel was accessed by an elevator which took the operators up to their cabin. I was not a camera bug at the time, darn the luck.

There are miles of former strip mines, where the ground has been restored, trees planted and fish stocked. Illinois must have some stronger laws on strip mining than other states, because they preserve the land and these are very popular fishing spots.

Finally, there are some abandoned mines. Every so often, somebody’s house in Monroe, St. Clair or Randolph county has the ground cave in because of some forgotten old shaft mine.

I’d like to read a book on Illinois coal. It would be quite interesting.

[Railway_Man]

I remember reading that Illinois consumed most of its own coal production, that is one reason it is not usually associated with mining like KY, WV, and PA are.

Adam

Illinois might not be known for coal in the popular public imagination today, but no one in the coal mining or railroad industry would make that mistake. And in the 1930s and 1940s, Illinois was a well-known coal mining state by the public, or at times notorious, as in “Bloody Herrin.”

The best resource for Illinois coal mining is Coal Age magazine in the 1902-1970 era, which has exhaustive information on Illinois coal mining practices, economics, and markets. There’s a rather famous series, in the early 1930s as I recall, called “Where Illinois Coal Goes” that intricately detailed the origins, destinations, and transportation routes of every ton of Illinois coal for an entire year. It went farther afield than you might imagine, with substantial markets in the upper and central Midwest, reaching west and south until it collided with the market envelopes for Colorado and New Mexico coal.

RWM

[Railway_Man]

Lets write our own book!

Great conversation. It is good to see that Southern Illinois has something going for it. For years it has been a pretty tough area to earn a living.

Ethanol plants are popping up everywhere. That also is good for Southern Illinois not only for jobs but for corn prices. I wonder what will happen to all of these plants if oil prices drop. Sure demand for oil, primarily spurred by China is at an all time high, but take a look back in the 80’s when oil prices fell dramatically as production drove the prices of oil down.

Typically, how much traffic do the ethanol plants generate for railroads…is it a few cars a day or larger? I know it depends on the size of the plant, but are we looking at a potentially large amount of business for the rails? If so, Southern Illinois could become a significant energy producer based on ethanol and coal.

ed

I hope you haven’t been waiting for an answer for two years, two months, and two days … but in case you still are, most of the ethanol plants now coming on line are in the 100mm gallon per year size, which equates to 12 cars per day of ethanol and 12 cars per day of dried distiller grains outbound. Grain inbound by rail varies depending on whether the local market is supplying it all by truck; generally that’s the plan.

RWM

[inch53]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Soo6049

The IC’s Indianapolis District at one time had several mines on it. The mines were located between Sullivan Indiana and Switz City, Indiana. All the mines that the IC served on this line were gone by the late 60’s but the line became primarily a coal route in the early 70’s when they began hauling unit trains that were loaded on the MILW to Indianapolis Power and Light’s EW Stout generating station at Indianapolis. Just before the ICG sold this line to the INRD in 1986 a loading facility was opened at Switz City. Today this loading facility is closed but another loading facility is located just south of it at Switz City. Soon there will be more mines opening in the area between Linton and Sullivan, Indiana. The future for Illinois basin coal is the brightest its been in the last 20 years.

There are lots of strip mines in the area but the Black Beauty Mine is the nearest to Switz City. As has been said much of the coal for Indianapolis Power and Light comes from this area and the coal travels over the Indiana Rail Road who conveniently has their engine shops in Switz City as well. I believe that INRD also moves coal to switch with a power plant just across the state line in Illinois as well, near to the former IC line

Mike

Mike,

INRD does deliver PRB coal to the Newton power plant. It comes in on UP coal drags from St Louis on CSX [PRR/Vandalia line] to Terre Haute IN. Then turns south down the old C&EI [INRD] to Sullivan IN. Where it turns back west on the old IC [Effingham - Indy division] into IL thru Palestine to Newton.

One note; the CN/IC still owns from Newton to Effingham. Last year, when the INRD had a derailment just west of Sullivan, the PRB coal drags were interchange at Effingham. Thru the ERR on to CN/IC and come in on those old IC tracks for a week.

inch

[JohnWPowell]

INRD is building a new connection with CSX at Sullivan Indiana to haul coal out of a new mine out of Carlise Indiana and in Oaktown Indiana i think black beauty is the company building a 5 shaft mine there and inrd will be hauling coal out of there on csx line