What do you make of this announcement?
Southern Pacific 2-6-6-2 “Big Boy” steam locomotive. Five-pole skew-wound motor with flywheels, factory weathering, and McHenry magnetic knuckle couplers. Direct-current model, $319; with LocSound Digital Command Control and sound, $409. Late 2008. Manufactured by Rivarossi, imported by Hornby America
What the heck is the manufacturer thinking (Southern Pacific?, 2-6-6-2?, and Big Boy? all in the same breath)?
Mark
Was there a photo? Someone might have screwed up and meant a cab-forward, or wrote Southern Pacific instead of Union Pacific, and messed up the Whyte code…I doubt it though…[:-^]
All I know is the above announcement copied from the July 24 Model Railroader newsletter in the National Train Show report section.
Mark
Sounds like whomever wrote the advertisement did not know much about the subject.
Mark–
Pardon me while I pick my jaw up off the floor, LOL! [:O] Let’s see–25 Southern Pacific ‘Big Boy’s’ and over 200 Union Pacific AC-series cab-forwards (coal-burning, of course). SUUUURE, that’s how it happened! And of course there’s that famous large fleet of SP 2-6-6-2’s (all 2 of them from the Verde Tunnel and Smelter Co.).
What’s next–Western Pacific Hudsons?
WHEW!
Tom [:-^]
Fire the proof reader![:P]
Hear, HEAR!!
Tom[:-,]
An Italian manufacturer and the importer is a subsidiary of a UK based firm. I can’t make heads or tails out of the UK steam class names. So I’ll forgive them for not knowing the difference between a 2-6-6-2 and a BigBoy.
Besides, from all I’ve ever read the 2-6-6-2s never had an elegant class name; just a bunch of railroad-specific alphanumeric codes. By the way, SP fans, what did SP call their 2-6-6-2s? According to Wikipedia some were designated MM-2, but those were cab forwards that had an extra lead axle added later. I guess I should do some research this evening.
Best!
I can see why you’re confused. It’s really a 2-6-6-6 Espee Allegheny. [:-^]
Maybe there’s a bit too much drinking going on across the pond at Hornby HQ.
Where did you find this announcement, Mark? There’s no info on the Hornby USA site.
Randall–
Actually, if I remember correctly, European steam locomotives were classified by the number of wheels VISIBLE on one side, instead of the Whyte system which classified steam locomotives by the total number of wheels on the locomotive. In that case, say, a Pacific, which we classify as a 4-6-2 (counting all the wheels) would be designated a 2-3-1 in Europe. I know there’s a famous piece of classical music by the French composer Arthur Honneger called “Pacific 231” which orchestrally depicts a French passenger steam locomotive from start to full head of steam and back to stopping. This might have something to do with the announcement of a 2-6-6-2, which in European terms, would actually be a 4-6-6-4 according to Whyte.
The AC’s that SP used originally designed for passenger service were termed “Mallet Moguls” (MM’s) and were of the 2-6-6-2 wheel designation. However, the leading truck was the cause of so much trouble that all but one of them were rebuilt to the 4-6-6-2 design. They were never really successful as passenger powers on the Donner Pass line for which they were designed, and I believe–and Mark can correct me if I’m wrong–they spent most of their life in Oregon hauling freight on the West Side Line between Portland and Ashland.
Now, to compound the problem: SP never had locomotives of the 4-6-6-4 wheel arrangement (Challengers), they were a UP design, originally, and UP had the largest number of these locomotives (105, I believe). SP’s articulated power consisted of 2-8-8-2’s (2 original cab-rear designs and about 20 or so cab-forwards), 2-6-6-2’s, later adapted to 4-6-6-2’s (cab forward) 4-8-8-2 cab-forward design, 2-8-8-4 standard cab-rear design and two 2-6-6-2 standard cab-rear mallets that they acquired from the Verde Tunnel and Smelter Company during WWII.
So–a 2-6-6-2 SP “Big Boy” announced by Rivarossi only confu
Tom;
Thanks for that excellent post. I’ve spent the last hour web surfing and all I can find on SP 2-6-6-2 corresponds with what you said; the MM-2 class were built as cab forwards for SP and were modifed when they were only a couple years old with an additional axle front pilot truck.
A side benefit of my research was that I learned a lot about SP’s cab forwards. I ordered the forthcoming InterMountain AC-12 because it’s such an unusual piece, but I didn’t know a lot about them.
As for the UK and European steam locomotive classifications, yes I understand that they did use a different numbering system based on axles instead of wheels like the Whyte system in North America. But they also had class names, and many were alpha-numeric codes beginning with BR. Oddly, they also used BR classes for diesels as well. That becomes more confusing when you learn that Germany used BR alphanumeric classes as well, but they aren’t the same as the British ones. I have yet to find a good document that explains these classes. I’d be grateful for any input.
The cabforward 2-6-6-2s were converted to 4-6-6-2s within months of delivery. I can’t find any references to MM-1s. My uninformed guess is that was the original designation and that MM-2 came when the front trucks were replaced. Tom already provided info on the conventional MM-3 2-6-6-2s. While the SP operated the MM-3s, they were the only compound steam engines operating on the railroad. All the other SP compound locomotives had been previously scrapped or converted to simple engines. Mallets were slow, and although they used steam twice like other compound locomotives, greater efficiency was later achieved by superheating (greater steam pressure) and using the steam only once.
MM-2s were used on the Pacific Lines of SP (I’ve seen pictures of them pulling freights in Niles Canyon, etc.) but did eventually migrate to Oregon.
Some locomotive designs like the MM-2s never did fit their originally designed roles. Another example is SP’s three-cylinder 4-10-2s which were designed for the grades over Donner Pass in the Sierra Nevadas. They soon found themselves working everywhere but there.
Mark
If New Haven could run a GG-1…with a C-C wheel arrangement… and have Tyco produce a model of it, then I s’pose anything is possible.
PS – My favorite articulated locomotive is the MM-3 with the large SP Vanderbilt tender.
Mark
Paint it in a Kodacrome “Warbonnet” paint and someone will buy it…doesn’t matter if its a steamer, Warbonnet paint will sell almost anything.
Mark–
I’ve got a photo of that locomotive in a Lucius Beebe book CENTRAL PACIFIC AND SOUTHERN PACIFIC. Isn’t that something? Seems to me that the shop people on SP would swap tenders just because they got bored, LOL!
Tom [:D]
Allegheny? Bah! The 2-6-6-6’s were called Mikados, everyobdy knows that![swg] Allegheny’s are of the wheel arrangement 4-9-2!
Could paint the Big Boy Espee Grey with red wings on the side of the smoke box and SP on the front of the smoke box like the diesels. The rear of the tender should be red too.
Those are only the electric Alleghenys. The 9th wheel is the center-rail electrical pick-up.[:-^]
As for the UK and European steam locomotive classifications, yes I understand that they did use a different numbering system based on axles instead of wheels like the Whyte system in North America. But they also had class names, and many were alpha-numeric codes beginning with BR. Oddly, they also used BR classes for diesels as well. That becomes more confusing when you learn that Germany used BR alphanumeric classes as well, but they aren’t the same as the British ones. I have yet to find a good document that explains these classes. I’d be grateful for any input.
The UK used the Whyte system for classifying steam locomotive wheel arrangements as did the US, Canada and every other English speaking country. The Whyte system was English in origin. The French count axles. The Germans are a bit more arcane http://www-personal.umich.edu/~khmiska/_derived/The%20Three%20Bs.htm
Germany uses BR because it’s the abbreviation of Baureihe (production class). The classifications below came about after the creation of the DRG (Deutsche Reichsbahn Gesellshaft) in the 20’s.
| Class | Description |
|---|---|
| 01-19 | Express passenger tender locomotives |
| 20-39 | Other passenger tender locomotives |
| 40-59 | Freight tender locomotives |
| 60-79 | Passenger tank locomotives |
| 80-96 | Freight tank locomotives |
| 97 | Rack tank locomotives |
| 98 | Local tank locomotives |
| 99 | Narrow gauge locomotives |
IOW, a BR01 is an express passenger locomotive. That doesn’t tell you much, however, unless you’re familiar with German locomotives. An 01 (or Null Eins) is a 4-6-2 and there were several subclasses partly as a result of rebui