Why did southern railway seem to like high hooded locomotives. They put them on SD 45s and such, even though lot’s of railroads had chopped their highhoods on earlier locos, and ordered their SD45S low hood.nI didn’t even know '45s were high hooded 'till now. They must have had some reason to do this? otherwise, they would have not ordered them with high hoods due to poor visbility. what’s the reason. And did Norfolk Southern gradually chop these hoods when they aquired them, or did they leave them up. I would think that it was because the short hood usually trailed on some southern engines, but in the picture in the October '06 issue of Trains pg.60 the horn is up front, not on the back like in long hood foreward engines.[%-)] Please explain, thanks.[:)]
The last two railroads to operate locomotives with high-short hoods were the Norfolk and Western, and the Southern Railway. Both railroads beleived that the added safety of running long hood forward and the high-short hood for crew protection out weighed better visibility. N&W stopped buying high-short hoods during production of their SD40-2s, but continued to specify the long hood as forward into their Dash-8s and SD60s, although both models had either dual controls or a stand designed to be operated with either end leading. The Southern Rwy’s last new high-short hood locomotives were GP50s bought in 1980-81.
For whatever reason, Southern preferred to keep things the way they were in steam days – put the bulk of the locomotive between the crew and anything dangerous up ahead. While it was true that long-hood-forward operation was usually safer from a crash standpoint, it was conversely somewhat less safe from a visibility standpoint!
Regional line Norfolk Southern (easily confused with today’s NS, though not really the same company – I’ll cover that later) had their locomotives set up for short-hood-forward operation, with low short hoods that were very common in their day. When Southern acquired NS, their locomotives were assimilated into the Southern way, with the controls being reversed, and the low short hoods being rebuilt to high short hoods!
Southern’s merger partner, Norfolk & Western, was the other major high short hood proponent. Unlike SOU, however, NW preferred dual controls and the flexibility that came with it. This way, their engines wouldn’t have to be turned, which would likely save money that would otherwise be used to maintain turning facilities. I’m sure NW had other reasons for this as well, I’m just assuming this to be the case. NW’s last orders for engines before the merger that created NS (the current company) all came with low short hoods, but most retained the dual controls.
Norfolk Southern seemed to be one of the best-executed mergers, as two similar railroad cultures came together. NS ordered their locomotives with low short hoods, but had no problems running locomotives long-hood-forward, just like either of its predecessors! Almost all of the high-short-hood locomotives remained that way, at least until recent times. NS was also the last railroad to continue ordering modern high-horsepower locomotives with standard “spartan” cabs, i.e. not with wide noses, as had become the standard elsewhere in the industry. NS was the only railroad to order Dash 9s from GE, and o
Heck NS had to be forced to even order the Dash-9 they wanted to keep ordering the Dash-8. GE flat out told them we do not even offer that model anymore and would not build it for them. That is why the Dash-9-40-C came to be GE wanted them to have wide cabs and 4400 hp but NS was like nope we want 4000HP spartan cabs and that is it.
Norfolk Stubborn ?
I’m surprised they still have the SD80MACs.
On the Topic of Norfolk Southern and their rival CSX. Another person had a picture of a CSX big diesel (I don’t know what kind) with red marker lights. Does this mean that it is ex conrail? I heard that NS took off the marker lights did CSX do the same? Did they ever repaint conrail locos without removing the markers?[%-)][:D]
They initially left the markers alone on ex-Conrail units but, when CSX got those units owners (lessors) permission to plate them over they plated them over. I have yet to see a former Conrail unit in the “dark future” scheme with the marker lights intact.
Back to the topic, N&W gave up on paying extra for high hoods but they still were considered long hood hood forward until the merger with Southern. Southern held out and bought high hoods to the end. Successor NS bought conventional cabs/hoods after the wide nose cabs were in GE and EMD’s catalogs. They had to buy D940CWs, after GE jawboned them into the-by then-standard units. EMD took the same approach with their SD70s, but were more flexible about non-standard cabs et al… to a point.
Anything more classy than a long hood forward SD45? Maybe with a green flag attached. At least in the latter part of the 20th century anyway.
ed
Er, ah, sorry . . .
But if the engine was operating as a lead unit, those lights wouldn’t be markers.
They’d be classification lights.
Markers were used to signify the REAR end of a train. So technically, if the unit was the rear of a set of pushers and had red showing, they’d be markers. But usually not.
Ol’ Ed
Norfolk Southern’s attitude about standardization at 4000 HP is reminiscent of MP in the early 1960’s when they re-dieselized with lots of GP18’s, unloaded a bunch of minority makes and re-powered RS3’s with V12 567’s and RS11’s with V16 567’s.
Ahh I’m with you on that. I love high-nose locos. My work is located along a dead-end NS secondary that almost always gets 1-2 high-nose GP38-2s or GP-50s on the local turn. High-nose SD40s frequently run locally, too…just love 'em. I never saw an SD45 high-nose but in pics they are something to behold
Nothing like limited sight to get the ol’ blood flowing.
[quote user=“fuzzybroken”]
For whatever reason, Southern preferred to keep things the way they were in steam days – put the bulk of the locomotive between the crew and anything dangerous up ahead. While it was true that long-hood-forward operation was usually safer from a crash standpoint, it was conversely somewhat less safe from a visibility standpoint!
Regional line Norfolk Southern (easily confused with today’s NS, though not really the same company – I’ll cover that later) had their locomotives set up for short-hood-forward operation, with low short hoods that were very common in their day. When Southern acquired NS, their locomotives were assimilated into the Southern way, with the controls being reversed, and the low short hoods being rebuilt to high short hoods!
Southern’s merger partner, Norfolk & Western, was the other major high short hood proponent. Unlike SOU, however, NW preferred dual controls and the flexibility that came with it. This way, their engines wouldn’t have to be turned, which would likely save money that would otherwise be used to maintain turning facilities. I’m sure NW had other reasons for this as well, I’m just assuming this to be the case. NW’s last orders for engines before the merger that created NS (the current company) all came with low short hoods, but most retained the dual controls.
Norfolk Southern seemed to be one of the best-executed mergers, as two similar railroad cultures came together. NS ordered their locomotives with low short hoods, but had no problems running locomotives long-hood-forward, just like either of its predecessors! Almost all of the high-short-hood locomotives remained that way, at least until recent times. NS was also the last railroad to continue ordering modern high-horsepower locomotives with standard “spartan” cabs, i.e. not with wide noses, as had become the standard elsewhere in the industry. NS was the only railroad to o
All N&W (Norfolk and Western) road locomotives had either two control stands or a single control stand in the middle of the cab with a set of control levers and gauges on both sides. This way the locomotive could be operated just as well in either direction without the Engineer operating from the opposite side of the cab. All locomotives bought by the Southern Rwy. were set up with a single control stand with the Engineer facing in the normal way and on the normal side when the long hood on the locomotive is leading.
There have been two separate railroads named Norfolk Southern, the first was a large shortline located in Eastern North Carolina, this company was bought by the Southern Rwy. in the 1970s. The second railroad named Norfolk Southern is the current railroad using the name, and was formed by the merger of the Norfolk and Western, and the Southern Railway. The last locomotives bought by the merged company (Norfolk Southern) with dual or Bi-directional control stands were bought in 1989 (C39-8Es, B32-8s, SD60s, and GP59s). All of these locomotives were bought with low short hoods, but with the long hood designated as front.
are you getting bi-directional and duel control mix up? bi-directional is just that a stand that allows you to run a engine from one stand either direction . a desk top engine is not bi-directional. the newer sd 70 engines are not true bi-directional but can be run as such. the front of the engine is the direction when the engineer is sitting down and his right arm is out the window that direction is the front. I also never seen a duel control sd-60 c39-8 b32-8 ( my favorite ge engine ) gp59 . the only duel controll engines i saw was N&W SD40s in the 1500s and 1600s. only. I hated these engines
Didn’t the Pennsylvania Reading Seashore Line have dual stand equipped GP38ACs?
I believe so, and they also had a unique cab front, as seen on DME 3802.
More questions: When was the new Norfolk southern formed? How about CSX.When you say that modern engines are not bidirectional do you mean that they cannot move in reverse only foreward? Also I don’t notice any difference about #3802.[%-)]
NS 1982
CSX merged 1980, became CSX 1986/1987
Modern engines can move in both directions. They are not bidrectional because the engineer is forced to face forwards by the cab setup (like in an automobile). In a biderctional loco the engineer can face either way.
If you look at the front windows over the hood, they are projected out further than the windows on the doors. On a standard GP38, they would be flush.
Oh I got it. Thanks![:)]