Anyone have any ideas about modelling a southwest desert stream Before you mention it, the MRR N(?) scale Beaver Dam Wash layout shows a really good example of the desert, but Beaver Dam Wash, as I recall from that issue, is pretty much of a dray wash. What I am looking at is a wash which has a very small amount of flowing water in it…the water may pool in places and meander along the middle, more or less, of a very wide flood plain. Any ideas or has anyone already gone this route and can share the good as well as the bad. I am currently laying track and have cut down into the 1" foam underneath the two bridges whichcross the desert stream (actually the maps have it as a river).
As long as your cut has a relatively level bottom, I would make the stream bed much as described in the article, then pour a little of your water preference at the top end. It should flow much like real water to fill in the depresions in the bed, as you descript you want it to pool. Just be sure to have the stream bottom sealed as well as where it comes to the edge.
If you have much slope, you could raise your table edge to make it level during the pouring process.
Try a chunk of foam carved out and prepared for the stream bed and add a small amount of your water mix. It will “waste” a little of your mix, but you may save having a major problem, if you experiment a little.
Good luck,
Richard
Find as many prototype photos as you can to get a good feel for the look of a wash in the area you’re modeling. Search on Google images, Flickr and such, and don’t restrict yourself with trying to find rail-specific locations. One good example to look for in photo searches in the Meadow Valley Wash in Nevada, along the Union Pacific, as it’s prominent in a lot of photos of that line and the track follows it for many miles.
Note that for a watercourse to be a “wash,” it should normally be dry. Something with flowing water most of the time, even if only a small amount, is usually going to be called a creek. Even a few “rivers” disappear into the desert, especially in the Great Basin, having channels that are mostly dry, most of the time. California’s Mojave River through Afton Canyon, also followed by the Union Pacific, is a good example.
Here are some photos I’ve taken that may offer ideas (these are from central/southern Utah)…
The photo above shows some water left over in spots. The “wide flood plain” look isn’t especially common, even in mostly flat terrain, as washes will typically be incised into a channel, although they do vary in width.
In my neck of the desert, the condition you want to model is a very short-lived phenomenon.
99+% of the time, dry washes are dry - no water visible. If there is a (miniscule) flow, it’s a couple of feet down in the gravel.
When it rains, the wash fills up - fast, churning, muddy water. All too often, the leading edge of the flow is a wall of water that sweeps away everything in its path. That’s why knowledgeable locals stay out of dry washes - and why we bury the remains of people who don’t.
The torrent dwindles quickly once the source goes dry - and the source is usually a local downpour. The scanty surface flow with pools of water might last for a time measured in minutes, or at most a few hours. Then the usual lack of humidity sucks all the visible moisture away and the wash goes dry until the next deluge.
If you really want to model what you described, better paint a highly localized thunderstorm on your backdrop.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - in a Clark County, NV, garage)
Case in point - the first photo I posted is of Grand Wash in Capitol Reef National Park. The day after I photographed it, a flash flood sent muddy water through it six feet and more deep from a thunderstorm on nearby Boulder Mountain. The following day, nothing was left but flood debris and some mud. Only a few days before I took that photo, a similar flash flood went through, but by the time I was there only a few small patches of mud were left.
If you’re going to represent any water, it should be virtually opaque from mud. I’ve seen a few attempts at modeling desert streams with clear casting resin or whatever, and they tend to look pretty phony.
Gentlemen, if you check out the Gila River, downstream of the confluence of the Salt and Agua Fria rivers, it pretty much flows year round because of the discharge of treated waste water from the Phoenix urban area, discharges from the sand and gravel operations upstream, agricultural return flows from the irrigated fields along the north side of the river, and groundwater that discharges into the stream since the groundwater system is extremely shallow, all the way to a location called Gillespie Dam. The system supports bosques of mesquite and/or salt cedar along with some areas of cottonwood/willow. My desire is to model a short portion of the Gila that has the conditions that I generally describe in my original post.
“In my neck of the desert, the condition you want to model is a very short-lived phenomenon.”
Hey, Chuck what part of the desert are you located in? I am in Phoenix.
You mean like this? http://www.theinsidegateway.com/PaulScolesPelicanBay1.htm 3rd picture down
It’s Paul Scoles Pelican Bay Railway & Navigation Co layout. He has been in many of and wrote many articles for the RR mags. He also has a 2 part scenery DVD which covers his methods. part 2 is the high desert.
ratled
The high desert is significantly different from the lower elevation desert found in central Arizona, the Sonoran Desert. It sounds like, however, that the scenery DVD may be worth checking out.
I’d second the recommendation for the Scoles DVD. Ignoring for a moment the differences between his supposedly northern California locale and your Gila River scene, Scole’s techniques are worthwhile for ground cover and texture,as well as modeling water. I live in and model the Great Basin so my layout will look somwhat like the Diablo Canyon scene in the DVD, but I think using the basic ideas from Scoles would work for you as well.
Hi, Bearman. I’m an ox, myself (Chinese-Japanese zodiac sign.)
Locale here is North Las Vegas, due west of Nellis AFB.
The Gila river as it runs today is a very atypical water course - and most of the water sources you named are a mid/late 20th century man-made phenomenon. I’ll quickly admit that the outlet from the Las Vegas treatment plant is a substantial flow, but the only irrigation around here is lawns and gardens, and not much of that flows off. As for the water table, it’s down there - at the far end of a long string of drill pipe, if you want to go for it. If you want to see the treated water discharge you have to go to the Lake Mead side of Lake Las Vegas. Uphill from Lake Las Vegas the Las Vegas Wash isn’t even damp most of the time.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
The Cimarron River in New Mexico usually has some water in it - 12 foot wide stream in a bed two hundred yards across. Never have seen it running in full flood.
Rob and Chuck, now I understand your perspectives. As I indicated, I am in the Sonoran Desert, Rob you are in the Great Basin and Chuck is in the Mojave Desert each of which has its own unique characteristics. Chuck, in a previous professional situation, about 30 years ago, I worked on that AWT plant that discharges into Las Vegas Wash, but that was in the pre-Las Vegas Lake days. Down here the Gila has flowed more or less constantly since the waste water treatment plants have been discharging starting in the 1950’s. Before that the dams upstream on the Salt, Verde and Gila rivers pretty much cut off all flow. You are correct in citing the cultural changes that have created the system. I have seen the Gila and the Salt running at full flood stage, close to a 500 year event on the Salt as it was later calculated, and it was a sight to behold. At any rate, I am freelancing my layout and am sort of fixated on trying my hand on the situation in the Gila that I previously described in other posts.
Greetings all you desert dwellers,
Modeling desert water is easy, there is none! Not really but down in the Mimbres River valley, which is Deming, NM the rivers are dry for the most part but with occassional running being near flood stage once every 10 years or so. Check out my posts on FB and a feature article on ModelGeeks.com concerning water techniques using wood sealer and caulking.
The best,
johncpo