I’ve seen a couple of photos of Southern Pacific Cab Forward locos in El Paso, but have always wondered if they every went east of there. Anybody have any references or photos?
Mike
To my knowledge, El Paso was the absolute easternmost point on the SP Sunset Route that the cab-forwards ran, but during WWII, SP was dispatching locomotives all over the system, so it’s possible that a cab-forward might have made it as far east as San Antonio, but I’d be very doubtful. I believe that El Paso was the last easternmost point on the SP to have turntables long enough for servicing the locomotives (and the cab-backward Lima-built 2-8-8-4’s that ran on the El Paso-Tucumcari route).
Tom
Thanks for the reply. I suspected as much, and thought that if any of those giants made it into central/south Texas along the Sunset Route there would likley have been a photo or two that survived.
My layout models the T&P from Big Sandy in East Texas to Sierra Blanca in the Trans Pecos where the SP and T&P met. I’d love to sneak one in on an occasional run, but that may strech the reality too much. On the otherhand, it is my RR and some other out-of-time sequence details may show up on occasion.
We’ll see…hmmmmmmm?
Not all is lost. The T&NO (representing the SP in Texas) had 12 articulateds from 1910 until 1929/30. These were relatively small, normal-facing 2-6-6-2 Mallets having compound cylinders to use steam twice.
Mark
Mike–
If I can run Missabe Yellowstones in the Sierra Nevada on a fictional Rio Grande extension during WWII, you can sure as heck run a cab forward into Sierra Blanca to meet the T&P. Hey, it’s WWII and everyone was running everything EVERYWHERE! Just picture a Burlington 4-6-2 running on the SP Coast Line between San Luis Obispo and Santa Barbara in California, or UP 2-8-8-0’s running on the SP Shasta Division out of Dunsmuir, or Rio Grande running Missabe power out of Denver to the Moffat Tunnel, and you get what I mean. Back then you NEVER knew what was coming down the track at you, LOL!
Tom [:)] .
Hi Mike, I’ve recently been re-reading A.D. McLennan’s book, “Texas & New Orleans.” His chapter on the El Paso-San Antonio main line mentions that track restrictions and tonnage ratings for some Pacific Lines engine classes were included in T&NO employee timetables in the WWII years, presumably so that those engines could work east of El Paso if required. I can remember reference to the MT-1 and MT-4 4-8-2s, and to the GS-2 4-8-4s, but I don’t recall any mention of AC classes (Cab Forwards). McLennan writes that at least one 4300 was photographed in San Antonio during the war years, but he found no evidence of GS-2s actually coming east of El Paso. It does appear that F-5 2-10-2s were the biggest freight engines on that part of the SP system (significantly larger than the MM-1 Mallets). That book, by the way, would be an invaluable resource for anyone modeling any part of the T&NO. It’s published by Signature Press, www.signaturepress.com. Merry Christmas, Andy
At Sierra Blanca the TP began operation over the SP to El Paso. There was no “interchange” there, The TP engines operated through the TP yard in El Paso and the SP trains operated through on the SP side.
The MM-1 2-6-6-2s weighed 310,000 pounds and had a tractive effort of 64,885. The F-5 2-10-2s weighed 397,900 pounds with a tractive effort of 75,150 pounds, plus an additional 10,970 when the booster was operating. I presume the F-5s were faster engines having 63-inch drivers compared to the MM-1’s 57-inch drivers and not being hampered by compound steam.
Mark
Thanks for the replys and Merry Christmas to all as well–thanks Andy for the greeting. I understand about the T&P/SP junction at Sierra Blanca, but never knew (or had forgotten) that the T&P had a seperate yard in El Paso. I’ve got a fairly complete library of T&P books and somehow missed any information about it. Andy, the TNO book by McLennan is on my Christmas list so we’ll see if Santa thinks I’ve been a good boy.
Clearly, the T&P could have, and did, handle steam locos (Texas type 2-10-4s) of size and weight near to the largest SPs, on the hauls east of El Paso. It just appears that none of those SP big guys ever got re-routed to the Sierra Blanca to Ft. Worth run.
I wish the layout space/design would have allowed a section for the Sunset Route from Sierra Blanca to San Antonio…and then the Katy/Frisco/MP back to Dallas…and maybe a through track to Houston to connect to the FWD back to Dallas via the Sam Houston Zephyr…as well as the MP Valley/Aztec Eagle to the Rio Grande.
Arrrggg…Lesson learned is to think twice, maybe several times, before you try to model Texas railroading. Maybe it’s just a question of how much can you manage.
Anyone have a large vacant building available?
Mike