According to the Walthers website and MTH’s website, MTH will be coming out with their verison of the Southern Pacific Daylight trains. It looks like SP modelers will have plenty of choices when it comes to modeling Trains 98/99 between BLI/PCM, Athearns and now MTH. I do personally do love the train and it’s nice to see it being made/sold for a semi-affordable price but is there really a huge market to warrent 3 manufactures producing the same train? It’s as if the SP Daylight has become to HO-scale passenger cars what the F-units has become to HO-scale locomotive. I would think that the manufacturers would want to offer something different as oppose to going head to head with each other over a niche train. [%-)]
Frankly, I’m not holding my breath that ANY of them will have a “Daylight” train soon, or if at all. BLI and Genesis have been promising the train since I had hair and it was a different color, LOL! The N-scalers finally have their Kato (I saw one at my LHS and it’s a really handsome offering), but we HO’ers are still in a Holding Pattern. Granted, it’s a ‘niche’ train, but it’s an extremely FAMOUS one, so if just one mfgr. comes out with it, I think it will be popular enough to sell well. And of course, it’s a unique train–you just can’t slap Daylight colors on a standard streamlined coach and say “Here’s your Daylight”–, you have to do tooling for articulated cars, a 3-unit articulated diner–even the windows aren’t like anyone elses windows.
I’m not going to hold my breath over this–4 mfgrs promising the train.
But then (he said with a sigh), the market got flooded with Big Boys–talk about your ‘niche’ locomotive–so there’s no telling.
Tom
COMPETITION keeps the price down.
It is about time accurate (not just Daylight-painted, non-SP-prototype cars) non-brass models of the most beautiful passenger train in the world will be available.
Mark
If memory serves, the manufacturers aren’t all to produce the same version of the trains. There is the early version, lettered “Southern Pacific Lines” and later version lettered “Southern Pacific.”
Different SP-Pacific Lines routes had different Daylight trains. There was the Coast, both Morning and Noon versions (LA-Frisco) and the ancillary Oakland-San Jose route, the San Joaquin (LA-Oakland) and the ancillary Sacramento-Lathrop route, and the Shasta Daylight (Oakland-Portland). Also, SP subsidiaries Texas & New Orleans and St. Louis-Southerwestern had their own versions.
Mark
Mark–
Even though I grew up in SP territory (Donner Pass), I pretty much defer to you on your knowledge of the passenger trains. So my question is–was the post-WWII San Joaquin Daylight largely made up of the ORIGINAL pre-war Coast Daylight cars (with the addition of the home-made 3/4 dome car, of course) or did SP order cars specifically for the train? I’ve always been a little confused on that issue. I know that one company is promising the pre-WWII Coast Daylight and another is promising a post-WWII version. Of course, logically, neither would ever see service on my Yuba River Sub, even though I give SP trackage rights, but I’d be kind of leaning toward the San Joaquin consist, since I have a couple of MT’s that could certainly use a passenger train.
Just curious.
Tom [:)]
If I’m not mistaken the MTH GS4 is already shipping. As far as the passenger cars, it would only make good business sense to produce them soon.
Best!
Tom, I can’t say off-hand. Here is a site with some sample consists of the San Joaquin Daylight: http://espee.railfan.net/san-joaquin.html Is this enough for you to begin research? I have SPH&TS’s book on SP coaches, so I can pursue this further if you are unable.
Mark
Supplement: Tom, regardless of when the cars were built, I believe the relettering to “Southern Pacific” on all passengers cars was completed within a couple of years of the end of WWII. The new lettering was adopted in 1946, and it would seem that the premier trains would have the highest priority for revision. I’d like to hear from anyone who has contrary information.
Mark
Quite correct Mark, the Daylight logo was also in transtion to a simplified ball and wings design(except for the painters at the Sacramento shops who refused to adopt the new style). Overkill? I think not, come over to S scale where the dominate theme among the S scale manfactures continues to be that there were no railroads west of the Ohio River. To each his own, enjoy the diversity.
Dave
Modeling the mighty SP 3/16 to the foot…
Tom, Mark, and all,
From a variety of sources, but particularly from Richard Wright’s excellent book on the Coast Daylight plus the current passenger car volumes from the SP Historical and Technical Society, new equipment basically went to the Coast Daylight (#98-99) first, with trickle down to other services. The notable exceptions: The T&NO Sunbeam got some new equipment upon inauguration as a streamliner, nearly coincident with the original Coast Daylight (1937). Similarly, the post war, 1950 introduction of the Shasta Daylight had it’s own unique (tall windows!) equipment. The Noon Daylight on the Coast Line was the immediate recipient of the “hand-me-down” equipment pre-war as new train sets were delivered in 1939 and 1941. The addition of baggage elevators and a consequent car length increase by 2 feet was the hallmark of the later deliveries.
The San Joaquin Daylight was forever the recipient of “hand-me-down” equipment. It used 1937 Daylight cars (the ones without baggage elevators, so look to Athearn for this), augmented with some refurbished and repainted heavyweight equipment (head end and a hamburger grill (at times) plus the Shasta Daylight’s dome during winter months (domes built ca. 1954-55). By the late 1950’s, the equipment pool got pretty mixed, though I suspect the Coast Daylight tended to get the newer equipment. A mid-50’s order for more Chair cars, done to the Shasta plan, netted cars for both the Shasta Daylight and the Coast Daylight.
As to paint, Mark notes the 1946 change of paint standards and West Coast S notes the simplification of the Daylight logo. Given the frequent repainting of the premier equipment, the old “Lines” lettering probably disappeared from the Daylight fleet in less than a year. The June 1958 change to the GS (“Tomato Stripe”) scheme took a lot longer to effect, as the whole idea was to reduce cost, including frequent repaints. Plenty of photos show Daylight paint well into the 1960’s. I’ve seen photos of the Shasta , ca
Thanks for filling in some Daylight details, Beaver.
The Beaver, now that was an interesting train too.
The Beaver was a ‘heavyweight’ train of coaches and tourist sleepers that ran from Oakland to Portland, but did not have thru cars to Seattle.
The 1946 SP Equipment circular lists the The Beaver, Train #13/14, consisting of baggage-express, coach, 4 chair cars, diner, lounge, and 4 16-section tourist sleepers.
Mark, fan of secondary and tertiary SP passenger trains
SP’s Starlight, an over-night coach train between LA and San Francisco), also carried Daylight cars (articulated chair cars, coffee shop, lounge, parlor/observation) beginning in 1949. (I had a suspicion I left out a Daylight train from my earlier post.) The Morning Daylight drew the newest and best cars, the San Joaquin Daylight held second priority following discontinuance of the Noon Daylight, and the Starlight operated with what was left. The Shasta Daylight had its own equipment pool.
Mark
I do know that Athearn is producing the 1937 Daylight while BLI/PCF and MTH are producing the 1941 versions. Athearn will be the first to have a car from their version of the Daylight out first. A 48 seat chair car is due out in Aug 08 painted for general service (coach green) Lark (two tone gray) and latter scheme of stainless with tomato stripe. Remember with the Daylight, two standard chair cars were swapped with two T&NO chair cars from the Sunbeam. So you will need to be very careful on modeling the Daylight.
Charlie
Actually the Athearn Car is now scheduled for September and BLI/PCM moved their models up to November 08.
I only hope that this time the schedule will hold - I’m really looking forward to these models and have pre-ordered the PCM Daylight (both trains).
The atheran cars will be the 37 cars as they appeared later in life (deskirted) not as they were built. They might be producing some of the aditional 38 cars as well.
The 37 set did not have a tripple unit dinner/kitchen/coffe car . That was an add on in 38 due to congestion. BLI/PCM are doing 2 versions of the same cars. Neither is doing the 39 set which was similar to the 41 cars. The main difference between the 37/38/39/and 41 cars is the trucks. They looked similar but are not the same. The other difference is the 39/41 cars had a bagage elevator to speed loading and keep station stops to 5 minutes or less. There are other smaller differences as well such as interior color schemes and bathroom placement. Plans and schematics were available some time ago in the series of books regarding pullman standard plans. Ufortunately no one is making the cars I would like (as built 37 or 39 cars) . Supposedly there is some debate on who will produce the cars in the correct colors. That is tough since the paints available back then faded quickly so many photos make the paint look lighter and less saturated than they are. Supposedly dupont made the original and still creates it for the restored cars and engine as well.
Of course your layout lighting will significantly effect how these cars look . If the match original cars they will only look correct in the lighting used to color match.
You will also need to decide when you are modeling the daylight. By the time the GS-4 came out it was between 16 and 20 cars long . Often using a combo of 39 and 41 cars . Before they were sent off to the San Jaquin the 37 cars were used for one or the other and were often mixed in to increase train lenthg. Better off getting RKW’s book on the train and picking a time.
Standard 77 foot chair cars didn’t get much use on the original daylights most were built for other trains usually 1 or 2 were used while the rest of the chair cars were articulated sets.
Thats my 2 cents
While the shasta daylight had new equipment it used the original 37 observation cars.
I really don’t care I have my SP daylighter all ready with 5 cars
Its all I need. Its one of my excurtion trains anyways.
Since the time period here is the 1970-80 time frame the Daylight trains were gone. I do have a set of three Alco PA-PB-PA units in the grey and red so I will be getting the Athearn cars in the later paint scheme to go with the Walthers cars I have. The train is based on the “Cascade” in the early 1960’s so there is going to be Pullmans. Hopefully someone will make the Espee’s unique Dome/Louge cars.
The Shasta Daylight had a seperate pool of equipment when first on the road but later just about anything could be found in the consist except Pullmans. The last couple of years the Shasta Daylight only ran in the summer and was a short train. Usually a baggage car Dome Lounge Automat and three or four coaches. The Shasta Daylight came off in September 1966.