…it has me actively looking for some favourites, but not on that very busy site…I won’t go there.
I see Uncle Dave’s has a “future project” listed as the UP 4-12-2. Now there’s a model I could enjoy, even if it has to be a shelf queen. For you knowledgeable fellas out there, how likely, by whom, and how much?
-Crandell
I don’t know if I am reading your post correctly, but if it is Uncle Dave’s it should show who the importer is going to be. As far as pricing, I have seen the “TBD” for pricing, and called the importers directly, and they can usually give you a decent ball park figure.
Tell us more Crandell? I do not understand much of what you just said. I would love 4-12-2 but I do not know what Uncle Dave means?
Magnus
http://www.uncledavesbrass.com/
I can’t find anything about a 4-12-2 on that site. I have purchased from him before, and the service is great!!!
Thank you. Now I know something more! And found yet another place to burn my not so hard earned cash!
Magnus
Uncle Dave’s site indicates Key Imports is planning to produce HO models of UP’s class 9000 4-12-2s. I have no “inside” information. If I was to hazard a guess, I’d say the model could cost around $3,000. Perhaps it will have a 40" minimum radius, maybe a bit less. Again, only a guess.
Mark
Ahh, I didn’t scroll all the way down. Thanks for the “correction”. Should be a heck of a locomotive!!!
My bad. I forgot to write my question for a general audience…I apologize for that, fellas.
Yes, I was referring to “Uncle Dave’s Brass” found at this site by that name (he’s not really Dave, as information at the bottom suggests).
I may have found the association to Key Imports in passing, but I forgot that if I did. I would be happy if it is going to be Key that does it.
The price is a bit higher, even if a guess, than I had hoped. I was hoping for something closer to $2K. However, I’ll have to wait for something more concrete I guess.
I have a train calendar given to me for Christmas that has what must be a very famous photo of the first erected engine (#9000) making its only trip over Cajon Pass. Several men are squatting and kneeling in the dirt, watching the drivers as this titan slowly squeals through the crossover, presumably the only radius path it could safely take at that location. Wow! Huge flying pumps on the smoke box front. If anything could displace the mighty Pennsy J1 in my heart, I think it might just be this beauty.
I’m feeling a little fickle. [(-D]
-Crandell
Crandell,
Too bad you aren’t willing to go to ‘that other’ site. There is a KTM 4-12-2 available pretty cheap…I don’t know much about brass or the different makers of brass, so please excuse this if the item in question is not a quality example.
Don Z.
Thanks, Don (to be read as, "Get thee behind me, Satan!) [(-D]
Seriously, it looks nice, but I am so ignorant in the subject that I wouldn’t know what to be concerned about, what is good and bad historically with KTM (what does it mean, anyway?)…
Pretty hard to argue with that price, though. I would want it painted, so that would run another…$400-600? I have heard talk of higher prices than that, nearly double.
-Crandell
Crandell,
What can I say? I’m a “help out kinda guy”!
Don Z.
Brass Train Price & Data Guide shows Key Imports has produced about 10 runs of the model from 1984 to 1989. Back then, retail prices ran from $529 to $788. Current prices, including painted models, for these models appear to be in the $900 to $1300 range. Your estimate of $2K for the future models may not be too far off, but I’m pessimistic because of the devaluing dollar and “express train” increases in new brass prices.
Mark
I don’t know these KTM models directly, but they were produced in the 1960s. They don’t have the level of detail of models produced in the last couple of decades, or the sophistication of motor and gearing. The KTM models almost certainly have a much smaller minimum radius than most recent versions because of KTM’s greater tolerances and compromises in detail. Personally, I think the current bidding price has already exceeded it value. If you want the “drool factor,” get a more current (or future) model.
Mark
Crandell
That 9000 in the picture was on it’s way to Pomona, California, where it now resides, and is the only one in existance. The men are watching for derailments as the curves on Cajon Pass were a little tight.
I bought a Sunset 9000 in 1990 and paid $242 for it. Someone else on this site bought one for $700 from you know who. KTM and LMB models are 1950-1970 vintage, so the detail may not be up to par. I would expect Key’s version to be around $2000+, since a 4-8-8-4 is listed at $2250.
Bob Hayes
I believe KTM stands for Kumata Models, the builder. If so, the models were probably imported by LM Blum for a MSRP of $130 and with a current estimated value of $350 (current ebay bidding is quite higher). Key Imports models have been produced by Samhongsa.
Mark
You fellas have my head spinning.
It sounds like a hobby within a hobby, with a sort of cult following that I never understood…maybe noticed is a better word. So much to know and learn.
I felt what was displayed was a nice enough model, but I didn’t think it was comparable to the Key and PSC models displayed on Dave’s site. They are superb.
So, thanks, once again, for helping me out. I really am interested in the Key 9000 series for UP…that is almost a must for me.
What do you gentlemen have to offer in the way of a general appraisal of Division Point? Are they fair value, decent enough to consider a new purchase?
-Crandell
Key’s announcement has been around for about a year or two. If the model was released now, you’d be looking at the 2,000.00 price range. I personally have two TCY models on pre-order with no release date or price range but, expecting the modles to be in the 500-600 range. I personally would place your pre-order now.
Charlie
I see what you are saying, Charlie…fix the price right away and then get on with living? In any event, I did send an email earlier today canceling the J1 and asking him to put me on the 9000 list.
Please explain “TCY” for me.
-Crandell
Mark, I have to disagree. I believe KTM stands for Katsumi. Kumata is known as KMT. The Katsumis are supposed to be the better models, as Kumatas are said to be problematic. I haven’t researched it, but I would bet KMT products will command a lower price because of their reputation. I’m unsure whether either of them is still in the brass model business.
Yup, KTM stands for Katsumi, and were originally imported by Max Gray in the 'fifties and early 'sixties (possibly even later). I’ve got an early KTM SP MT-3 that I picked up at a swap show in Roseville about 3 years ago, and for the period in which it was made, the detailing is really pretty spectacular. The locomotive also weighs in at about 4lbs (we’re talking HO here, folks, LOL!), and though it sails through my 34-36" radii (including brake shoes), I think it could probably be talked into negotiating a 26" or so, because of fairly loose tolerances. Mine still has its original Pittman open-frame motor, though I’m planning on changing it out to an NWSL when I get around to it. Probably hauls as much as the prototype–it can actually take on as many freight cars as my heaviest Yellowstone. Just a HUNK of a loco.
Here’s a photo of it–my camera talents are not the best, but it might give you an idea of the amount of detail that Katsumi put into their very early brass locos. This one cost me about $350 three years ago–and I certainly don’t feel cheated about the price–which makes me think that the 9000 Katsumi on E-Bay might not be such a bad deal, after all.
Tom [8D]