I have a question for NCE users only. I have a P2K, A and B set, with each unit having a different decoder manufacturer. A unit has an NCE D13SR. B unit has a Soundtrax DSD-101LC. I have changed some of the CVs. I am close, but there are still some slight differences in acceleration, forward and reverse, etc. Also, the consist runs opposite to the command until I turn off the track power. When the track power is turned back on, the consist runs in the correct direction. As a point of information, the A unit had no room for the sound decoder and speaker. The B unit does have sound and speaker. The decoders were installed by Litchfield Statiion. Is there a procedure to facilitate this alignment.
Thanks. that would be great. I probably should not have phrased the question that way, I just did not want the thread to become, a which manufacture is better deal.
I am an NCE user and have a mix of NCE, TCS and Soundtrax decoders on my PH Pro system. If you have the speed matched with slight variations don’t worry about it. Different locos and decoders respond differently under load anyway.
I don’t understand your comments about the consist running opposite until you turn off the track power.
What DCC system are you using on your layout? If possible I would recommend using Decoder Pro on a PC connected to you layout to speed match locos. Since both of the decoders you have will allow you to create custom speed tables, they can be matched very closely with minimal work with Decoder Pro.
I guess I wasn’t very clear with my message. I’m running an NCE power cab. That’s why I thought it would be easier if someone with NCE controllers answered me. I am not familiar with Decoder Pro. I will have to look iinto that aspect.
The reverse thing is a mystery to me too. When I set up the consist, the locos will run opposite to my command until I turn off the track power and turn it back on - then they work correctly. This does not happen when I run my two P2K steam locos with tsunami sound in a consist.
What i intended by “opperates in reverse”, is when you push forward command the consist goes in reverse. When you push reverse command it goes forward. All other commands work correctly. Turn power off and back on everything works well except like i said some fairly small speed variation.
OK, I understand but don’t have any idea what could be happening. If I was having your problem I would clear the consist on your throttle and then set CV 19 = 0 on both locos. I am assuming that when the locos are not in a consist they go forward when you have them set to go forward. If so, I would then setup the consist again making sure the direction is set correctly.
In order to use Decoder Pro with your power cab you need the USB interface which is supposed to be available soon if it is not already. It has been long delayed.
yankee flyer, I have had my powercab for a couple years now and most of my locos have bean decoder equiped for most of that time and I too have one that gives me fits when I put it in a consist. The loco is an atlas c-628 with a digitrax decoder and it only began to give me problems about 2 weeks ago. I was in the middle of a two man ops session and needed to add it to a consist but everytime I attempted to move the consist it would run in the oposite dirrection. Very frastrating. I have not realy dealt with it yet but will start off with reseting the decoder. This decoder has had problems in the past and this situation is making me think that it may be defective.
So, try reseting first then think about sending it in. I deal with digitrax and nce decoders and both companies are exeptional when it comes to backing thier decoders.
Thanks for the posts. I’m trying to take all suggestions as an education process.
Some times I think too many things (possibilitys) are programed into these devise’s and not enough thought into how the average person is going to use them.
Anyway------- I had Litchfield Station install the decoders and I thought the locos since they are “A” & “B” units would be speed matched when I received them.
I have placed both units on the track and ran them in consist but separated by a foot or so. running them at increasing speed steps “A” will separate further as speed is increased suggesting Vmid (cv6) of one or the other needs to be changed. Right? In both this consist and in my steam consist I have to choose one of the loco numbers not the consist number to have both sound and motion. Is this how powercab works? In the steam consist its the lead unit. In the “AB” consist its the “B” unit with sound in it that I have to select.
I’m guessing one of the locos is wired to the decoder backwards and the direction bit is set to correct it. Can you see what CV 29 is set to for both locos. CV 29 controls a few different things but if it’s an odd number it means the direction of the loco is reversed.
Also if CV 19 is greater than 128 then the operation in a consist is reversed.
I checked both locos several times. The CVs are CV19=127and CV29=02 on both A&B units.
I set up a consist several times. With the following results.
Chose consist address, they move in right direction no sound.
chose lead loco address, they move in right direction no sound.
chose rear (sound) loco, they move in wrong direction but have sound etc. when power is turned off and then back on they work properly. Only one time did both units move in the correct direction with sound.
There must be a procedure in writing some where that would outline the steps to take. I have down loaded the manuals for both decoders but its taking me a while to absorb the details.
If you’re running them as a “consist”, that is, each has an individual ID no. and you’re using your DCC system to run them together - I think you have to choose the sound one as the “lead” engine to use all the effects etc. Keep in mind the “lead” unit in a DCC consist doesn’t have to be the first engine in the actual consist - it can be first engine or last engine or one in the middle.
Just a thought - if these engines run together as an A-B set up, why don’t you try giving both units the same ID no.?? That way you don’t have to worry about setting up a consist. I do that with a couple of Proto E-units, similar to yours the A unit has a regular decoder and the B unit has a Soundtraxx decoder. Since they are always run together, I gave them both the same ID no. so I don’t have to bother with consisting etc. [:)]
This is normal. This is the “Double ended consist” feature of NCE. The purpose of having a rear loco is so that you do not have to remember which end of the consist is the front, not a concern with an AB consist, but it can be with many other types. With a double ended consist, you do not have to remember the consist number or which direction is forward, just select the loco that is at the end of the consist in the direction you want to go, tell it to go forward, and the consist goes in that direction. This is handy for consists that people use at both ends of the train. As others have said, you could make the B unit the lead loco or just program them to the same address if you always use them together.
OK, your issue is not the direction but how to have the soundtrax loco respond to the consist address. I have my sountraxx decoder in my A unit so it isn’t an issue. Other decoders have a CV that controls whether how the loco responds to the consist address, Soundtraxx has CV 22 and 23 but I don’t know if you can get the response you want by setting them.
One thought that may work is you could set both locos to opeate in reverse, (set CV29 = 3) then setup your consist with the B as lead, and then always use the consist address.
Who would have thunk it? What seemed so goofy has a simple and logical explanation. I think I will run both units as one number since only one has sound. It should now be a much simpler procedure to change a few CVs to match speed and acceleration.
I have always said when I have to explain something to someone else I get a better understanding myself. Many thanks to all who answered my query.
Not sure if anyone is interested but what I thought would be a simple procedure took hours and hours of experimenting. I am running both units under one number, since they will not normally be run separate. but because they have different decoder manufactures each loco had to be set up using different methods (the CVs don’t always do the same thing). I finally have them very close. Although after working with the cabs off I noticed that the “B” unit has a growl or hum under power and seems to be slower, more start voltage and accelaration needs to be used. I am concerned that the the “B” unit is defective.The “A” is silent when running. Both are Proto 2K new.
In my experience it’s never a quick thing to speed match two engines exactly, and get the momentum to match etc. BUT it’s well worth the effort once things are running ‘just right’. [:)]
The growl or hum you here from your “B” unit is probably caused by the decoder. The decoders send pulses to the motor to control the speed. The NCE decoder you have in your “A” unit is a high frequency “Silent Drive” decoder. The Soundtraxx LC series uses a lower frequency drive which can cause an audible buzz. You can adjust the frequency in the Soundtraxx decoder using CV9, but you can not get the higher frequencies that many other decoders are capable of. CV9 can be any value from 0 to 230.