Spiking Rails

Model Railroader General Discussion (Model Railroader)
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The tie bed and stringers for a trestle are assembled, as soon as I paint them, I want to get the rails laid so I don’t have to stress the supporting structure later on.

I’ve never done this before, and I’m sure I’ll miss a trick or two. I have Micro Engineering’s medium spikes, stainless code 100 rails that I’ll slide out of some extra flex track, a good pair of needle nose pliers, rail nippers, and an NMRA gauge. What tools am I missing?

Offhand it would seem to be wise to spike one rail first, say every tenth tie to hold it in place, maybe leaving the heads up for easy removal if adjustment becomes necessary as the project proceeds. How often will the finished rail be spiked? One spike per tie, alternating inside and out to avoid splitting the ties? Slightly staggering two spikes in each tie to avoid splits? Is there such a thing as model spike plates and does anyone use them or is most hobby rail spiked directly?

When I get to the second rail for a given track, I’m guessing the procedure is to use the gauge to place the rail, a very sharp pencil to mark the exact location so it won’t show once the rail is laid and spike every few inches at first for placement, then go back and spike down the intermediate sections. Is this way off?

Coming to the guard rails, is there a trick to bending them? I don’t want the lower flange to distort and pu***he guard rails up so high it’ll cause coupler problems later on. In fact, I was wondering if I should lay the guard rails first as practice for the mainline rails afterward?

The spikes I have slide easily into the ties, which are well seasoned yellow pine and do not seem overly inclined to split. The rest of the trestle is mahogany, which I just happened to have around, already sized. Not too easily, they hold well, it would be harder to pull up a rail spiked there than with flex track, so the trestle won’t be a weak link. I plan to extend the mainline rails a little more than half a joiner past the end ties,

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Jeffers_Mz - there is a much easier way to lay the second rail. Buy a track laying gauge or two. These are grooved pieces that fit over the track and hold it in place while you spike the rail down. Make sure you get the correct size. They are available for code 100, code 83, and many other sizes. Micro Engineering and Kaydee both make them.

Good luck on your project and be sure to post pictures when it’s complete. We all like pictures! [:D]

Tom

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Yup. I knew I was missing something important, and sure enough, Fiatfan spotted it. I’ve got a 4-4-0 American, some track and some old time cars ordered, supposed to come in Thursday, I’ll pick up the track gauge then. I have long experience with how wood can direct nails other than precisely where you want them, maybe not that small but the principle is the same, and I suspect you have saved me a great deal of trouble. Thanks.

I have a large quantity of very low quality digital images of what’s been done to date, from bare benchwork to where things stand now, 80 or 90 percent of the foam carved and just resting in place, unfixed. My digital camera has been in the shop, but is ready now, and I’m pretty sure my bandwidth penalties at Photobucket have ended. In the next couple of weeks, I have to dismantle the foam so I can start gluing it in place permanently, which will give me a chance to get much better pictures than the ones from the webcam.

From reading this site, I thought it might be of interest to document an old newbie’s (recently returned to the hobby after a 30 year absence) progress on a layout, and have started a thread for that purpose. It is called “It Lives”, a line from an old Frankenstein movie that has become a talisman every time I bring a new system to life, usually computers but applicable for trains too.

It probably won’t happen till after Christmas, but I’ll get those pics up for you, at least through bare foam, as soon as all the conditions gel enough to let it happen. It’s only fair, the project would have been hopelessly bungled by now had it not been for the help and tips I’ve gotten here.

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Jeffers_mz,
I’d get (2) gauges, 1 for in front of the spike and 1 for in back this helps keep the rail in gauge while spiking. Also there are special spike pliers, they are needlenose with a groove on the insides at the tip to help hold the spike, if your LHS doesn’t have them just take a triangle file and file one toward the tip of the pliers.
Enjoy

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Jeffers_mz, Third the opinion on multiple gauges… The ones they are referring to are called 3 point gauges… Micro Engineering makes them and Kadee offers them as well… Personally I prefer the ME ones. Although, the Kadee ones have special features that can aid in keeping the rails aligned on the ties… Have an NMRA track gauge handy too.

You pretty much have the procedure nailed… Lay one rail first (though I’d put more than one per 10 ties), get it smooth flowing, make sure if it’s a curved rail it’s at the radius you want thoughout and get it set in place… You don’t want to leave it loose because you’ll be gauging your other rail off of it… As you go along, check it with the NMRA gauge and where necassary, lay a small flat screwdiver on the tie, next to the head of the spike, and give it a gentle tap to bring the rail into gauge.

When doing the guard rails, again, use the NMRA gauge to set the flange width properly… Lay a small piece of copper wire to help conduct heat and solder the bases of the rails together every couple inches. You may have to file some notches to clear the spike heads that hold the main rail to get the guard rail in place properly. When you’ve finished attaching it, set some spikes on the outside of the guard rail…

The pliers… Get a pair that fit your hand, that do not come to a sharp point, and that have seraded tips… Micromark sells a pair that are pretty nice… Even if you don’t want to or can’t buy from them, check them out anyway to see what I’m talking about…

Lastly, I would practice on something other than your bridge to get the feel of driving the spikes. It does take some practice and one slip can cause disaster on a bridge.

Good luck,
Jeff

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Jeff,
I forgot about the pliers feeling good to the hand, very important.
Glad you remembered.

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These pliers are old friends, a flat spot on each jaw tip about the size of a spike head, sharp corrugations on the inside of the jaws but no groove. I’ll take a look at the Micro set when I pick up the gauges. Good call there, I can see where two will be better than one. Rollieman, the one spike per ten ties is just to keep the rail in line while more are driven, sort of like how you tack up a gutterboard, string it, then nail each rafter, and finally play “in and out” to get the small swoops and veers out of it. For looks alone, I’m thinking one spike per tie on each side of the rail, at least on the outside.

I didn’t realize that the guard rails went so tight to the main rails that the base flanges touched. I thought they were to prevent derailments from turning into disasters, keeping unrailed cars on the bridge deck and out of the river, but that sounds like they are also to help prevent derailments in the first place.

Two questions. One, what is the purpose of the soldering? To fix that edge of the guardrail since clearance for spikes is hard to come by?

Two, define “disaster”. I’m going to take your advice and lay some practice rails first, but I’d still like to see any catastrophes coming in advance. The trestle deck is not attached to any bents yet, and the plan is to lay the rail while the deck is laying flat on the bench. It’s hard to see how this could go seriously wrong, but if it can, I want to know about it beforehand.

This is a straight section of track, a two track mainline. The span is around 18 inches, with about two thirds of that over dry gully, maybe four inches tall, and the remaining third over the creek channel, call it six inches high. It’s on a 4.3 percent grade, and the plan is to build two sets of bents, four short ones, two tall ones, all identical across a set. To account for the grade I’m going to shim them up to take advantage of the precision height adjustment a shim offers, and the terrain will cover the bases.

I’m

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That’s fine… My suggestion was simply to have one rail entirely spiked before you lay in the second.

With some sizes of rail, the bases Won’t touch… Code 100 though, you’ll be pretty close to a proper flange width… Yes, the purpose of the guard rails is to prevent derailments but they can also cause them… That’s why I suggest the NMRA gauge to make sure that the flangeways are in gauge as well as the main rails… The reason for soldering them is simply to hold them in place easier… Your NMRA gauge has 3 parts that are of interest here… First, the track gauge (the 2 little nubs on the bottom), second, the Flangeway gauge (the 2 little nubs on the top), and the Flange Depth gauge (which is a single little nub usually on one of the angled sides)… That flange depth gauge is also a flange Width gauge. You want to make sure once completed, all three of these items flow smoothly throughout the bridge… Really, I’m probably making it sound more difficult than it really is. The point is, while I suggest starting with joining the rail bases, use the gauge to make sure everything is in check before finalizing it… If you solder, and get too much in the

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Disaster happened today. I was trimming the stringers to length and the last stroke of the keyhole saw took off the stringer stub and continued down to snap off the end of an overhanging tie.

It’s glued back on now and will probably hold since it takes minimal weight, and if all else fails, it’ll probably have to be cut off to miss an embankment cut anyway, but it wasn’t a joyous moment.

Thanks for all your help.

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That’s a nice looking testle. I like the vertical bent members under the rails, sound engineering at work.

How much trouble was it to bend those stringers? The next trestle here is on a curve, much shorter in length and much shorter in height but still curved. Two choices, I can cut them from solid material, or I can make a jig, wet them and build them up to a radius from several plies. I’m leaning towards option one, since by the time I get thick enough for the glue to hold them curved in shear, I’ll have close to a solid deck under the ties.

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The stringers are actually single pieces between each trestle bent, much like the side bracing… It’s very solid but is also one of the problems with this particular trestle… As it stands right now, even though I couldn’t see them when I was building it, there are tighter radii within the 32" that the trestle is built on. The entire span is close to 6 feet, is 20" tall at it’s tallest point, and runs up a 2% grade… It was also installed from the bottom up. You can get a better view of how the top is done in this photo…

[image]http://www.rolleiman.com/trains/jjslumshay3.jpg[/image]

You may also notice that the scale of the lumber would be better suited to O scale. In HO scale, those beams are about 22 inches thick. The entire unit can be lifted off of there (minus the stone piers of course) and moved aside for scenicing behind it… The bents were built on a template that I drew in AutoCad, printed out and glued little sticks to in order to form a jig. The bridge is ‘toylike’ if you will but I don’t really care. Of course, the one problem I’ve been stuck with for the last 7 or 8 years is how to make it look like it belongs… My interest has shifted somewhat from mountain to city scenery and I no longer want to build the floor to ceiling mountain this was originally intended to go around… Actually, it’s more of a comprimise. I’d like to have both but don’t have the space. I’ll keep it though because of what everything that went into it represents to me…

To further answer your question, this is actually the second version of this trestle… The first one had a solid stringer set running under the rails, that Was bent to curve… If the wood is thin enough and free of knots and minimal grain, it’s actually pretty simple to bend… What I had done with That one was to actually lay 2 of them per rail under the ties. Each was about 3/16" thick and bent quite nicely to what amounted to a 24" radius. That trestle too, was built on a grade… You’d think I’d learn (and I have) and ju

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I like the idea of straight stringers pier to pier following the curve. The curved bridge is a short span, not going to be considered for any awards, just a bridge over a creek.

I’ve got a few bugs in the straight one too. The ties take spikes perfectly, but the mahogany refuses them, bending them into pretzels. With the stringers laid out directly under the rails, this isn’t going to fly. I’m going to fudge a bit, slide the rails over so the spikes just miss the stringers, and adjust the length of the ties so that the bridge appears to be symmetrical. If it doesn’t fly, well, this is a learning experience.

Third time’s a charm, right?

:slight_smile:

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Have you considered glueing the rails to the trestle so there is no spiking?

Dave H.

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Yes. but…well I like the idea of seeing the spike heads…which leads to the idea of gluing the rails and shortening the spikes but the points are very sharp and hard for me to resharpen after cutting, …which reminds me that I have medium spikes…and that implies they sell short spikes…hmmmm…

Thanks, that may just lift me out of a jam.

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Ditto Pliobond or crazy glue.

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Well, with problems starting to mount, I scrapped the first try, and spent most of yesterday cutting stock for a new effort.

In deciding on lumber sizes, I was first thwarted by a basic problem, the ties on my existing flex track measure 0.140", which scales out to a 12.18" wide tie in HO. Since real ties are usually closer to 6" by 8", this is a little more than double the proper size.

I thought about ignoring the prodigious “scale” ties and making the trestle completely to scale, but ran into three problems. One, my thickness planer only planes down to 1/8" (0.125"), two, the structural integrity of some of the smaller members is questionable, and three, half size ties would look pretty silly right next to double sized ties, so I decided to make the trestle stock all fit the unnatural tie size from the flex track I’m using.

By doubling the calculated values of the main stock sizes, the results came so close to convenient ones, that I decided to round them off. For example, an 8 inch thick member scales out in true 1:87th HO to 0.092 inches. After doubling this to match the double sized flextrack ties, you get 0.184". By rounding this down to 0.160", not only do your 4", 12", and 16" stock round out to easily memorable figures of .080", 0.240", and 0.320" respectively, but the six inch tie scale thickness exactly matches the minimum thickness my planer can handle, 0.125" Additionally, there is now no question of collapse, and since I rounded down instead of up, it’s at least closer to true HO scale than if the round-off had gone the other way.

Late last night I glued together the 4 two piece built up 16" x 16" stringers for the dual track mainline, and first thing this morning I smoothed them out with some 80 grit so all were identical heigths, squared off the ends, and glued the top beams of all the trestle bents to the underside of the stringers. They are drying now. I waited about 5 minutes for the glue to set up just enough to hold things in place, then we