As I mentioned in the other headlight thread, I’m looking ahead to installing some decoders in about a dozen older Atlas/Roco and Atlas/China S-2 locos. Planning primarily to go non-sound obviously, I just want to get them back up and running.
But I did some searches here and online, and it appears from the NCE website that the dedicated, drop-in decoder they had for the application (their NCE ATL-S4) is ‘retired,’ and a search online didn’t turn any up in terms of lingering NOS.
TCS makes a similar drop-in decoder (their TCS AS6), but I’m not sure I’m seeing it on their website, there are none on feebay, and only a couple of sites online seem to have them. I ordered three of those to get going on the project.
Anyone have any other suggestions either (a) of any others sources for the TCS AS6 decoders, assuming these work out well, or (b) an alternative decoder choice that is as close to drop-in as possible?
I’m also inclined to try at least ONE sound installation, and caught the reference in an earlier thread to a MR article in 2010 that detailed the installation of a Soundtraxx 827012 (MicroTsunami TSU-750), so I am going to try that once I’ve done a simpler install on one of these. (Open to suggestions on sound installations as well.)
Are there any other options that I’m not seeing yet? I have several of the recent Atlas sound/DCC S2s, so I’m not looking to convert all of my older ones over to sound, just want to get them running again.
The TCS A series are for Atlas/Kato and newer Atlas locos, they won;t be an easy fint in the Roco-built S2. I have one of the S2’s and like most of my installs I am jiust going to ahrd wire it, there’s plenty of room and it’s easiy to isolate the motor - the loco is NOT DCC Ready, like the similar P2K S1 (and talk about copycat - even has the same motor with a purple end cap!) the lower motor brush is connected to the frame. This is isolated from the pickups, however if the loco derails a wheel can be forced into contact with the frame and POOF.
Before you tackle the older Atlas Roco S2s look over this TCS install. It shows the critical insulation that is needed regardless of the decoder chosen. Make sure to replace the screw holding the motor with a Kadee delrin or nylon screw. I haven’t dealt with any of the newer models but they may be similar. http://www.tcsdcc.com/Customer_Content/Installation_Pictures/HO_Scale/Atlas/S2/Atlas%20S2.htm
Now THIS is what they don’t teach you in kindergarten. [:S] Don’t think it would have occurred to me that the Kato locos would be different from the Roco ones. Hmm. Maybe this is another good reason to stock up on a few of the NCE decoders. I’ll also have to see how many Kato vs how many Roco engines I have. I really appreciate this input, you’re going to save me from making a hasty and expensive mistake in ordering. I suppose I should probably pull one of each apart to better see what I’m dealing with.
on edit: I’ve been trying to get my locos and rolling stock inventoried, here’s what I know I have (it’s possible there are a couple more squirreled away in another box somewhere):
LV150 ALCO S2 ATLAS AUSTRIA
LV151 ALCO S2 ATLAS CHINA
LV157 ALCO S2 ATLAS CHINA
LV158 ALCO S2 ATLAS CHINA
LV163 ALCO S2 ATLAS CHINA
EL526 ALCO S2 ATLAS ROCO
EL528 ALCO S2 ATLAS ROCO
UNDEC S2 ATLAS ROCO
UNDEC S2 ATLAS ROCO
ERIE 520 ALCO S2 ATLAS SILVER
and I appreciate this link, which leads to the one for the TCS AS6 decoder install, which I’ll use for those decoders. I also read somewhere that it’s hard to find an exact nylon screw to fit for the motor screw–so folks use the Kadee screw as a next-best-thing alternative. Is that still the way to go, or does someone know where to get an exact replacement for the motor screw?
The thread in the motor is metric but you can use either the Kadde screw or a nylon 2-56 screw. I used nylon screws for my S2s and they worked well. Although they are not metric they will screw into the hole on the motor and hold very tightly.
The key difference between these and the P2K version is that the motro in the P2K has a plastic end cap, so that bottom brush does not touch the frame of the motor, so a nylon screw is not required on those, just a piece of tap to keep the brush cap from contacting the loco chassis. I’ve not tried it, but it looks like the P2K motor should just drop in. Of course, where are you going ot get P2K motors? It might be possible to insualte the brush holder, which accomplishes the same thing as insualting the whole lower motor frame and using the nylon screw. That’s an alternative.
In the original thread under General Discussion your last question was regarding speaker choices. I have put sound in four P2K S and SW switchers. I put the speakers in the roof of the cabs in each case. For the first couple of installs I used small oval speakers with the enclosure modified to fit the shape of the cab roof. The speakers show a little bit but they are really not glaringly obvious:. The second picture shows the speaker because of the camera flash but under normal lighting they don’t stand out:
More recently I have switched to so called ‘sugar cube’ speakers, also known as iPhone5 speakers. There is space in the cab roof to mount two of them. They sound quite a bit better than the old style speakers. Here is some information on them. Note that if you are using two speakers that the ohm value changes to either 4 ohms if wired in parallel or 16 ohms if wired in series. Make sure your chosen decoder can handle those impedence values if you are going to install a pair:
Dave, thanks for the detailed response and for the photos as well. The sugar cube speakers look great, in reading over the SBS pages it looks like the main challenge is getting a tight seal on the sound chamber more so than getting them to fit or wiring them up. They are also not as expensive as I thought they would be (not sure what I was expecting), and appreciate the link to Digi-Key as well.
Let me get a couple more ‘simple’ installs under my belt and then I’ll be ready to take a stab at a sound installation. thanks!
well, as it turns out I got the last one they had–I ordered five, but they were down to one. [:'(] So . . . maybe I will be doing more sound installations than I had originally planned. [;)] If anyone knows of any other sources for the NCE decoder, let me know–they were considerably cheaper than the TCS AS6, not that that’s a huge deal breaker for the TCS ones.
The TCS A series won;t be a drop in fit in the Roco version S2. You would want the M2 and do a hardwire install, the link is the one I posted, but it can also be found on the TCS web site under HO Installs, Atlas.
The TCS decoders have BEMF, which is one of the major differences in cost.
Ok, got it–thanks again Randy. I’ll have to open up the Roco and China locos tonight to see what I’m dealing with, good also to know about the BEMF feature on the more recent decoders. I’ll get back on the TCS site and study the M2 decoder and installation instructions. Really appreciate the advice on this, a little confusing keeping the two releases separate, but I think I’m getting it straightened out in my head now. [:)]
On a separate note . . . just wait til I start asking you folks for advice on converting my brass camelbacks over. [(-D][(-D]
The integrity of the speaker enclosures is indeed cruicial. Pearhens discovered that when he tested a recent install without the enclosure completed. The horn sound was horrible (my words).
(To get the link to work, highlight it, then right click on it, then select ‘Open Link’ or words to that effect from the drop down menu.)
Something to note which is contrary to standard speaker/enclosure practise is that the diaphragm in the sugar cube speakers points to the inside of the enclosure, and the enclosure apparently works best when it is glued firmly to the shell.
You just need to leard to hard wire a decoder. Then you’ll never want for a special type ever again. It’s not such a big deal on these S2s since they are pretty simple, but other locos that come with directional constant lighting for DC have much more complex circuit boards in them. SUre, it has an 8 pin socket to plug in a decoder - it MIGHT work. Some have circuit traces you need to cut to use the plug-in decoder option. But if you strip all that junk out, you’ll have 2 wires from each truck, and 2 wires to the motor. Extremely easy to figure out.
