actual facts prove you wrong about too many people carrying guns causing
more crime. States with carry laws have half the crime–look it up
Ah, yes, “An armed society is a polite society,” as Robert A. Heinlein said.
About 5 minutes ago – local news has apparently interviewed suspect Darnell Williams, “film at 11”… the comments are already rolling in.
You are spouting NRA propaganda. Yes I am a retired police officer. Many years ago, I was also an NRA member. I carried a gun on and off duty for 22 years. Now I do not even own one. I never said no one but the police should carry guns, and I do not know a single police officer who feels that way. I am in favor of laws that control the sales of guns. There are people in our society who should not be allowed to be armed. The current laws make it impossible to track the sale of firearms to those people. While a licensed gun dealer must do background checks and cannot sell to felons and mentally ill people, there is no way to prevent YOU from selling him one. As long as you believe the paranoid delusion that any record keeping is the first step toward total confiscation, no reasonable controls will be passed.
A study by two New York City cardiologists found that the
Dave,
I have some sheriff’s deputy friends who would strongly disagree with your position. That said, you are entitled to your opinion. OTOH, before someone complains to the moderators, I don’t think this is the proper venue to be discussing gun control.
It’s not.
Just so you know where I’m coming from I’m an NRA Life member and have owned guns for 40-plus years. A gun control discussion doesn’t belong here. We’re not likely to change each others minds and more likely to PO each other.
That being said, anyone remember my earlier suggestion of non-lethal weapons training for Amtrak personnel? Any ideas along those lines?
Chicago Tribune and WOOD TV news in Michigan interviewed relatives of the man with the knife. He’s evidently an out-patient of the V.A. Hospital in Saginaw. May his victims recover fully and quickly, and for that matter, he, too. And thank God the damage he did wasn’t worse.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chi-several-stabbed-on-amtrak-train-1-in-custody-20141205-story.html
http://woodtv.com/2014/12/05/several-stabbed-aboard-an-amtrak-train/
A bullet, in a dense environment like a train car, is not going to stop in the original target. Even a police officer would be reluctant to shoot into a crowd. Pepper spray and Mace have a tendency to get many unintended people in a dense environment. All of those people need to be treated ASAP by medical people. Tasers are quite effective at close range but it is very important that they only be used in defense. To many people, police officers included, use them on people who have made them angry or who are not complying with orders. It is not a cattle prod, it is a usually non lethal weapon. I have no objection at all to TRAINED members of the crew carrying them.
Firelock76,
ideas along those lines, what’s so special about Amtrak personel? I would expect a trolley motorman to experience far scarier encounters with dangerous passengers, in fact a friend of mine was a SEPTA bus driver, Charles Kolbeck, I hope I spelled his name correctly, whom a passenger stabbed to death, and I knew another trolley operator who had been stabbed, in the late 1970’s. In both cases, the fatal one according to witnesses, the non-fatal one according to the victim, all the motorman had done to provoke the attack was to ask the passenger to pay regular fare.
Shortly after the fatal stabbing SEPTA started installing several variations of partitions to shield trolley and bus operators. Nowadays most light rail vehicles have the operator’s station completely walled off, but even those with more traditional motorman’s seats, such as Boston and Philadelphia, have much more substantial barriers than in days of yore. It would seem the trend has been, as Andrew Falconer suggested above, to provide armor, not arms.
The above linked site is a report from a Michigan TV Station WDNU,( inclusive of FB comments on the end of the ariticle) on Saturday night, referencing the assailant Darnell Williams.
Drilling down in the Comments on the FB posts, at the end of that linked article; there is a quote from William’s 89 year old grandmother about Williams’ 10 years of military service, and his granmother’s comment [paraphrased] “…He just wasn’t quite right…” “… and he had gone to the Saginaw(Mi) VA for help(?)…”
There is no indication of a diagnosis or of continued visits for VA treatment. I have no idea of the treatment available at that location. VA facilities differ in services they can offer Vets.
The diagnosis of PTSD can be problematic, and definitely individualized, as each person is effected by their life experiences, and it is definitely, not to be cured in one or two visits with professional staff members.
Darnell Williams is currently in the Berrien County Jail on $1 million Bail. Here is a linked story@ http://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2014/12/06/suspect-charged-amtrak-stabbings/20008087/
Certainly, hope that the vicitms in this incident will recover. And hopefully, a judge or court wil order some kind of investigative (psychiatric) treatment(?)
But they lead the world in death by giant humanoid robots and demon spawn. Or at least that’s what I gather from what I watch.
Now getting sort of back on topic - what about tasers for RR passenger personnel? But I wouldn’t be morally opposed to some sort of sanctioned weaponry (with approrpiate training and certifications) for all RR folk. (notice I am not restricting this just to Amtrak. God knows I’ve already walked a train with air hose wrench in hand, just in case I ahem came across a busted air hose).
I know the railroads do not want the liabilities, but still…
I have been licensed to carry a hand gun for 30 years, my wife for 27, and in that time, she has never had a reason to use her firearm, and I have removed mine from my holster once in the line of duty.
Criminals are just that, people who ignore the law, it doesn’t matter to them if having a handgun is illegal, they break the laws as a matter of course, it is what they do for a living.
Take away all the guns, they will use baseball bats, confiscate all the bats, they will use pool cues, remove all the pool cues, they find a kitchen knife, remove all the knives, they will use rocks.
If you remove the guns from the citizenry, the only people who will have guns are the criminals, they have no fear of being prosecuted for the crime, it’s part of the “job” so to speak.
The major difference between Japan and the US is that Japan rigorously prosecutes those that violate their gun laws…if American DA’s enforced the existing gun laws in the US…That and the fact that the Japanese live in a very structured and ridged society that reinforces following the rules and laws, and private gun ownership has been illegal since the end of WWII, it was intentionally left out of their constitution written under the Marshal Plan to prevent the possibility of Japan re-arming.
It’s always good to hear from professional railroaders like zugmann and edblysard, they’ve got insights the rest of us on the outside looking in just don’t have and can’t have.
Any Amtrak personnel out there? I’d be interested in hearing what YOU think.
If Mr Williams had used a firearm instead of a knife how many people would be in the morgue instead of a hospital. Does anyone remember Colin Ferguson. Rgds IGN
I’d like to second what Firelock said.
Additionally, I find it fascinating that the majority of shootings are in states where more gun control is mandated. Its about as successful as prohibition.
Using that term very loosely.
Isn’t it odd that nobody complains that calling for more guns is inapropriate in this thread?
I started the whole gun angle, but I belive it is appropriate to this thread. Railroaders work in some dangerous areas (and an amcoach can qualify as one).
You were in law enforcement Phoebe. I’m sure you worked in some less than stellar places. Would you feel comfortable to be in those areas by yourself without your firearm, and a mile+ away from your car? And throw in a radio that has a lousy range. Guys have been robbed, beaten, and even killed out here.
It is something I think will eventually come up for debate.
I think I know where you’re coming from. I’m a copier repair technician by trade, have been for 25 years, and every once in a while I run into a problem machine that makes me feel like I just started! Usually it stumps everyone else so I don’t feel so badly.
Zug:
If you read my posts carefully you will see that I have not said no one should carry a gun. I said that we need a system to make it harder for people who are not supposed to have guns to get them. The only requirement I would like to see for legal possession is a class to teach people when they are allowed to shoot people. Your arguments about whether or not I feeel safe without one are a red herring. I do not carry one now. Law enforcement is a special circumstance. Citizens are not expected to knowingly insert themselves into danger. You have the option to withdraw. Law enforcement officers are trained in the laws and regularly tested on the range. Not a bad idea for anyone who carries.