Hello Gang: I searched the community for help in the area above but didn’t find much. I need your help to figure out what I am doing wrong… or if I am not doing anything wrong at all… I just cannot seem to make a flawless rail joint were an engine moves over smoothly with no obvious lag. Here is how I make rail joints with my flex track:
I am running n scale atlas code 55 flex track with under-soldered feeder wires that are soldered to the code 55 rail joiners. Every joint of flex is soldered together from underneath with a code 55 rail joiner. This seems to work okay, but it seems that every rail joint for me needs to be powered for smooth running. Even some of my powered joints cause a lag. [ugh] I am guilty that I do not file the rails once I cut them. i just cut them with the special cutters and slide them into the rail joiner, and solder away. Most of the time I can get a perfectly tight fit so I never really saw the need to file. That, and the rails are so small I feel like I am not doing much good. Anyhow, I prefer to run steam engines and I find that the narrower wheel base makes for a guaranteed problematic running. Or, perhaps is it the brand of engine I am running? I run Bachmann spectrum engines. They are generally inexpensive… am I just getting what I paid for? I can clean my rails with rubbing alcohol, and the wheels of the locomotive, and still as the engine passes over a joint I can tell from across the room - there is an ever slight lag, then it picks back up to normal operation. I use 14 gauge wire for my feeders, and my main bus. I do not wire for DCC… I would need to buy a book or something for that [lol… and post a few threads for help]. So, I was watching a video on you tube - soldering feeder wires - and I got to thinking of this idea below:
I notice that most rail joints I have seen in photos on layouts are pretty even with each other, meaning the L and R rail experience a joint at the same spot. What if I stagger the joints, so the left wheels will go o
Since the clearances are tight to begin with, perhaps it wouold be best to solder the joint only on the bottom and outside, not on the inside. That would prevent solder bulges from interfering with the flangeways and causing binding. You should also get some paste flux, I use this: http://www.ccis.com/home/hn/page22.html
(yeah, silly looking web site, but I had no problem ordering from here)
Apply a slight amount with a small microbrush to the joiner before sliding it on. Then when you solder, the solder will be drawn into the joint rather than building up on the sides of the rail. Also use some small diameter solder, I use .015, very fine stuff, and that’s for HO, should also be good for N. These things will help keep the running surface and flange area free of solder, while still giving a mechnically and electrically sound joint.
In my opinion, you can’t solder a feeder on the bottom of a rail joiner, then expect to solder that same joiner to both pieces of rail (track). The feeder would come loose. I solder all of my track from the top.
Feeders for N scale can be AWG 22 with no problems, and should use solid wire. If you flatten the tip with pliers then bend it over, it will look like a spike. Then solder it to the outside foot of the rail and you should have no problems. Then you can solder the rail joiners on to both sections of rail easier.
Starting with clean metal is the key to good soldering. First, I solder all of my rail joints. Cutting in block gaps with a Dremel and a cut off disk takes care of the expansion / contraction issues. I use a small wire brush known as a scratch brush to clean and scratch up the ends of my rails to get them clean. I put the two rails together with a rail joiner and use the scratch brush on the joiner. I then add a bit of flux. (Rosin core solder does contain some flux, but not quite enough for track-work soldering.) Using a 25 watt iron, wipe the tip on a damp sponge to clean it, then apply the iron tip to the joint and feed some solder in right away. This first bit of solder helps the heat to go from the iron to the metal being soldered. Wait a couple of seconds for the joint to heat up and then feed some more solder in. Move the iron over the rail joiner to the other section of rail without lifting the tip from the metal. Feed some more solder in if you need it. Don’t use too much solder and make solder blobs. If the joint is hot enough, the solder will flow like thick water and will follow the heat of the iron. If the iron is too hot the solder will burn and char.
This all takes practice to get right every time. Practice on some old track. It will be well worth doing it.
Next, you should dress up the rail joints. Run your fing
I dunno, works fine for me, but that’s HO Code 83 rail so it’s a bit larger. I only solder flex track together for the curves, and I solder the two pieces together and then solder on feeder wires to the bottom of the joiners. I usually dip the end of the feeder in the flux before soldering it on, so it attaches quickly before the rail solder melts.
Thanks guys… these ideas will help. I didn’t mention, but after I solder each of my joints and the track is glued down to the cork roadbed… I take the ties I peeled off the flex track, and use a razor blade to cut off the small plastic ‘hooks’ that holds the metal rail to the plastic ties, then I slide the ties under the soldered joint. I think the thin layer of solder sitting on top of the plastic ties (the solder that’s under each rail joint) is pushing the metal rails upwards just enough to separate them to the point it might cause an interruption in current. I am going to solder feeders on the sides of the rails for each joint… This is going to take time, but, I only have two circles that are running under the Christmas tree… it’ll give me something to look forward to for the next Christmas season! That, and ballasted track. Well, thanks for your time, and Happy Holidays!
Hey - do you guys know what tool I could buy to measure electric current before and after a joint…?
Yep, go buy yourself an digital multimeter at Radio Shack, Home Depot or Lowes. They aren’t that much money and are useful in a multitude of ways when it comes to Model RR’ing
I’m new again to this hobby, but got lots of advice this time before starting. Mine is HO code 83 Atlas flex, with Walthers-Shinohara turnouts. I used the smaller N scale (code 80) rail joiners and staggered joints (for my cork roadbed plus the track, with the track joints not over the roadbed (cork) joints and the cork joints not over my plywood joints). The rail joiners were tight and required some prepping to open a bit for the code 83, but they gave a nice straight/level connection that the trains traverse with nil effect. The ties are trimmed back at the joints for the joiner and soldering so the joints are self-supporting to an extent.
I have DCC. I soldered my rail joiners and track together except at the turnout joints. The track is in the house, and the 5’ x 10’ layout runs between turnouts (not enormous lengths) so far don’t seem to need extra gaps from those included for electical districts or turnouts. I pre-cleaned the track joints with a wire brush (Dremel), applied flux and soldered those with a Weller (125 watt?) gun from HD (using alligator clips as heat sinks to avoid tie melting). I ran the feeders to the outside of rails (to avoid flange issues), figuring upcoming ballasting will make any near side soldered feeders hard to see. Of course, the turnouts required feeders also, including to the powered frogs.
I don’t know how well I would have done at N size, but for HO, this seems to have worked well for me. The only track problems I’ve had were at an insulated gap where I made the gap a bit too wide (the trains don’t seem to mind) and at some Atlas crossings where the guard rails seem to have insufficient clearance from the main rails (a file is solving that).
Unless your solder joints are very poor, I doubt adding the ties back in is causing an electrical break - however if the ties are not sanded down enough to fit under the solder joint, they COULD be causing a bulge up which can cause derailments and/or loss of contact between the loco and the rail, just as bad as if the guage narrowed due t excess solder in the flangeway.What I do for HO, and will probably work for N as well, is first clip off the ‘spikes’ with my rail nipper, then use a needle file to file a slight groove over the tie plate area, so that when the repalcement ties are slid under, they more or less lock in place with the grooves clearing under the joiners so as not to push the rails out of place.
When using Code 55 track, do not skimp OR skip the details. As was mentioned earlier, you are working with very small track and it doesn’t take much to cause you problems.
When you cut your rail, be sure to dress the rail ends with a small file to remove any rough parts. This makes it easier to slide on your rail joiners. Also, it helps to run the file over the top inside corner of the rails. This eliminates any possible snag where wheel flanges MIGHT catch and cause a derailment.
When soldering, be sure to clean the area to be soldered with a small wire brush or file and use a small touch of Rosin Paste Flux as this helps the solder to flow. The trick of flatening the end of 22 or 24 Gauge solid wire and soldering it to the outside base of the rail to look like a track spike is a good one which I think that I will “steal” when I install some more track feeders. Just strip the insulation off the wire. Drill a small hole through the tie beside the rail and feed the wire through.
For some good information on soldering, visit Tim Warris’ FAST TRACKS website and watch him build a Code 55 turnout using his Fast Tracks jigs.
I just happened to notice that you are using DC power and are using 14 Gauge wire for your feeders AND your Bus line. When I started my 3’X6’ N Scale layout, I thought ahead for DCC and
Unless I’ve mis-read the original post, the feeder wires are being soldered to the bottom of the rail joiners, but the joiners aren’t soldered to the rails, which would explain the poor connections.
I run DC, and don’t use a bus wire or more than the two wires directly connecting the power pack to the track, but I do solder all rail joints, and later cut gaps, where required, for electrical isolation.
I’d suggest soldering your feeders to the outside of the rails, away from the rail joiners, and also soldering the joiners to the rails. If you need electrical gaps, cut them later or use insulated joiners in those locales.
To make a fast and solid solder joint, the areas to be joined should be free of grease, oil, and paint. Apply a little non-acid flux to the area and use small-diameter resin-core solder. The iron should be big enough to provide sufficient heat immediately - if you have to wait more than a half-second or so for the solder to melt, your iron is too small. I place heat sinks to either side of the area where the joint is to be made - a Kadee coupler gauge works well, as does a decent size pair of pliers or a small wad of wet tissue or paper towel. Touch the hot iron (a chisel tip seems to transfer the most heat in the shortest time) to the top of the rail, then touch the solder to the outside of the joint. It should melt almost immediately and be drawn into the rail joiner. Don’t leave the solder in contact too long, or you’ll end up with a blob that you’ll have to remove later and don’t leave the iron in contact for longer than it takes for the solder to melt and be taken into the joint. Otherwise, you’ll melt the ties.
I model in HO, and for code 83 track, I usually use either a 100 or 200 watt iron - I prefer the larger one, as the tip is slightly wider than the length of an untrimmed rail joiner.
To add feeders, I like to pre-tin the wire (solid wire, not stranded), then
One other consideration is the note that the engines lag right as they go over the joint. That could be a tightening of the gauge or a dip/rise in the track right at the joint. The dip or rise would cause the wheels to not maintain even contact causing a momentary break in the power. Use a straight edge to check the joints to make sure they are smooth across them and don’t have vertical or surface misalignment
Unless I’ve mis-read the original post, the feeder wires are being soldered to the bottom of the rail joiners, but the joiners aren’t soldered to the rails, which would explain the poor connections.
I run DC, and don’t use a bus wire or more than the two wires directly connecting the power pack to the track, but I do solder all rail joints, and later cut gaps, where required, for electrical isolation.
I’d suggest soldering your feeders to the outside of the rails, away from the rail joiners, and also soldering the joiners to the rails. If you need electrical gaps, cut them later or use insulated joiners in those locales.
To make a fast and solid solder joint, the areas to be joined should be free of grease, oil, and paint. Apply a little non-acid flux to the area and use small-diameter resin-core solder. The iron should be big enough to provide sufficient heat immediately - if you have to wait more than a half-second or so for the solder to melt, your iron is too small. I place heat sinks to either side of the area where the joint is to be made - a Kadee coupler gauge works well, as does a decent size pair of pliers or a small wad of wet tissue or paper towel. Touch the hot iron (a chisel tip seems to transfer the most heat in the shortest time) to the top of the rail, then touch the solder to the outside of the joint. It should melt almost immediately and be drawn into the rail joiner. Don’t leave the solder in contact too long, or you’ll end up with a blob that you’ll have to remove later and don’t leave the iron in contact for longer than it takes for the solder to melt and be taken into the joint. Otherwise, you’ll melt the ties.
I model in HO, and for code 83 track, I usually use either a 100 or 200 watt iron - I prefer the larger one, as the tip is slightly wider than the length of an untrimmed rail joiner.
Some folks dispute the use of such a heavy-duty iron for this type of work, but I found it easier and quicker than using something smaller, and less chance of damage to the ties.
Wayne, I agree with most of your soldering tips, except that I use a 25W pointed tip iron with no problem of melted ties in my HO flex track. I tin both the wire and the rail which might explain the quick connection. I also slide the adjacent ties as far apart as possible when soldering (except at turnouts).
In fact, I have used that same iron to reconnect a loose rail-to-rail jumper in a Walthers/Shinohara DCC-friendly turnout. These jumpers are thin, brass straps actually recessed and centered in the underside of a plastic tie and spot-soldered to the underside of each rail. That very tiny spot is in a hole in the tie. To my delight I was able to restore that spot connection without melting plastic.