I am planing a point to point railroad although I am getting family pressure for continuous run. If I stick with the point to point concept, are staging yards worth the space? I have an interest in running at least two passenger trains (eastbound and westbound). I want to interchange with other railroads. I am modeling the N&W in 1955. I want to interchange with the Southern and possibly the C&O. Staging tracks seem to be the answer but man they can eat up space. Other concerns include whether or not a detection system is a good idea for hidden staging. I am not the greatest electrical engineer, so things like track detection scare me. What are your opinions and experiences? My layout will be in a 20x 30 foot room (more or less). I plan single track mainline with passing sidings and of course industries. I am constructing a yard that will be about 1/2 way. It will have the mainline, 2 arrival/departure tracks, 5 classification tracks, servicing facilities, turntable and roundhouse.
YES, if you can work them in. They don’t have to be hidden or on a different level. They allow you to bring trains on the layout from different simulated places in different directions. If you are an operator, it really extends what you can do.
My RR is in a 9 x 24 room and I have a single main that goes around the room twice. At one end I have a staging / interchange yard with three tracks. (wish I put in more) If that yard is full, I operate point to point. If I leave a track open I can have a continuous run. You may want to take a look at my small web page about my RR. The link is in my signature block below.
My current under-construction layout (at the tape-on-the-floor outline stage) is a shortline running one local from an interchange to switch industries and return to the interchange. No hidden staging, but I’m only running one train that stays in three towns for the entire run. The interchange however acts as staging - all the cars enter and leave the railroad there.
My previous layout (click the link in my signature) ran several trains and was point-to-point with staging tracks shared by both ends of the mainline. I only ran three trains from staging yard to staging yard and I wanted MORE staging capability.
I’d go for the staging. It adds so many operating opportunities to any layout.
I agree, they are worth it… I have around the room layout but I still have staging and planning expanding it real soon, for me it will add some train yard switching action and a place to store my cars and I dont like taking them on and off the layout anymore than I have too.
Staging yards are definently worth the space, especially when you model the N&W. You should have on one either end. I have one staging yard on my railroad but one more on the other end would be great so I wouldn’t have to run the train backwards back through the town.
The Lone Geep
They are worth it , my new layout has some and I am already looking for space for more .
Had you considered a “hidden” return loop? That would satisfy both you and your family…
And I like “staging yards” myself, but I like to have fully assembled trains ready to roll at any time, obviously I’m not into switching and such, just like to run trains and watch them. Makes all my troubles go away and I get to enjoy a world of imagination and fantasy for awhile, also lowers my blood pressure and puts a smile on my ugly old face.
Mark
In my O/P when you run point to point operations they are almost essential. I personally like hidden staging mine is under construction in another part of the basement which has been put on hold temporarily. This way if you wish a person can be there building trains and dispatching them etc. If your not into operations it just makes for a more believable scenario having a “new” train appear on the scene coming out of a tunnel or over a bridge. Not everyone has this luxury so incorporating a staging yard with in the the confines of the layout is another option. I know it’s difficult when the family gets involved and wants to ad their two cents worth when it comes to layout design and construction but hey look on the brite side at least they are interested and want to participate in some way.
No reason your staging tracks can’t be a series of return loops giving you both options. An eay circuit for stopping trains is just to add a block at the end of the track so the engines stop themselves and energize the block to reset the trains.
My current layout has a total of 6 staging tracks - really not enough after a lot of thinking. Even if you do not ‘operate’, they are very useful for storing those ‘extra’ trains we all aquire! If I build a new layout, it will have 10-12 staging tracks.
Staging is one of those thing most folks do not ‘get’ - Until they are at least 6 months into a layout build and realize the folley of their ways…
Jim
If you have a point-to-point layout, and you are not content with the pace at which you can turn a train or break up and make up a train at each end, then you need staging and/or a continuous run. It all depends on your intended operations. Since your desired operations mentions high (relative) speed passenger service, those will take less time to traverse your limited main line. And you don’t mention enjoying turning a train or making up/breaking up trains in the two terminals. So I suspect you will want staging and/or continuous run.
For those of us who don’t mind one train at a time sequential ops, or for whom terminal operations are pleasant rather than a chore, staging is more of a nice-to-have.
Staging can be as simple as a passing siding where you direct that a train be held. It doesn’t have to be hidden, although out of sight tends to help the illusion. As has been mentioned adding return loops at both ends gives you the advantage of both staging and continuous run when you want it. If you are using DCC, the autoreversers make return loops much easier to operate.
100% adherence to strict operational procedures can eliminate the need for detection or monitoring of hidden track. OTOH, if you can’t/won’t enforce strict operational procedures, then some kind of monitoring (and rerailing access) will be needed.
my thoughts, your choices
Fred W
Absolutely…I have one that is all of 8" by 3’ on a HO scale logging layout and love it. It is bolted up against a wall and only consists of 3 short sidings that all enter the layout through a double track portal. There is a removable “roof” over this short staging area with trees, structures, etc. It isn’t very large but it really adds to the operational enjoyment of the model railroad.
Wayne
YES.
Terry
My three deck Santa Fe has a total of 4 staging yards for the Santa Fe, two for the BN line. The largest staging is 8 tracks which is part of the Oklahoma City Flynn yard and are visible. At the back the tracks go out of sight into a mole hole staging area.
There is a Waynoka staging yard, a Kiowa staging yard, and a Cherokee staging yard all ATSF. The Waynoka staging is a visible, sceniced staging, Cherokee is hiden, and the Kiowa staging is represented by the Enid dist.connecting with the transcon mainline, all staging areas.
Then I have the BN staging at Tulsa mostly visible, and staging at the west end of the line, hidden.
Obviously, I believe in staging for operation, and have been doing layouts that way since 1962.
Bob
They are definitely worth it. Make sure you have enough staging tracks for all trains. I highly recommend adding a decent amount more than you think you need. I have 15 staging tracks for my BNSF Montana Division and quite honestly need more to handle the amount of trains that can be run in an OP session. I thought I had a good handle on the number, but with extras and different days trains I definitely could use more. Do not skimp on staging! You’ll be glad you didn’t . I’m thinking of doing a major layout overhaul just for more staging. PW
For a relatively simple point to point design, your interchange yard is your primary staging. The interchange road may or may not be modeled. The basic premise is the interchange railroad drops off cars in the yard, then your point to point road sorts, blocks and runs them up the line to their destinations, and then brings back the cars to the yard to be dispersed to the wider world. By sticking to these basics, no, you don’t really need staging.
However, creating staging tracks that represent the interchange road’s destinations, say, east to Norfolk or west to Cincinnati, will make your layout is much more interesting. There can be industries that ship to the west, and probably coal tipples shipping to the east. Now the yard has to sort the outbound cars so they’re pointed in the right direction, and you can have a train run out of staging to the yard to pick them up and get them out of your way. You now have more capacity in your yard, and the potential to add a better variety of industries to the line.
Another way to add interest would be to include a single large industry, like a major lumber mill, a paper manufacturer, or an auto plant that would require a dedicated switch job. That, in combination with a coal operation, and a series of smaller industries will create opportunities to run three different trains on a regular basis.
Hope this helps.
Lee
While staging tracks can be a blessing they can also be a hindrance on operation nights in fact they can become a operation killer if staging becomes the primary source of traffic instead of the working yards…
On a larger point to point I am not sure if I would have staging…A smaller point to point yes but,only as a secondary destination and I would use return loop staging…
Craig,
I don’t usually respond to track planning questions because there are TOO MANY variables and everyone has different wants/needs/interests/desires/views/etc.
I have however designed about a dozen layouts for other modelers over the years.
Personally, I would not build a layout of any size, bigger than lets a say a 3x12 switching layout, that did not include a continuous run provision.
Personally I like through staging for large layouts. Also I like loops, preferably mostly hidden or disquised, for the turning and re-staging of complete consists even if they are run in a “point to point” operating scheme.
Our model railroads are TOO small to generate much traffic or be the destination of much traffic, so staging is more than necessary in my view.
BUT, I like and want ALL aspects of operation, switching, mainline running, dispatching, CTC, passenger train setup and operation, power changes, etc.
What I don’t like is too much of any one of these, so the layout needs to provide BALANCE. True point to point layouts have too much switching/terminal work, not enough mainline for me.
AND, non model railroader friends and family like to see trains run, not watch someone work a switch list.
I also try very hard to only model each MAJOR element once - one visable freight yard, one engine terminal, one large passenger terminal (OK, I do have a number of lesser passenger stops), one water front scene, one good coal mine, etc,etc.
All my attempts to model both “ends” of a line have been unsuccessful in achieving a realistic result.
My current layout space is 24 x 40 and a new layout is about to begin which will include:
8 scale miles of double track mainline on two decks
staging for 25 trains - freight trains 30-35 cars, passenger trains 10-12 cars
an 8 track, 18’ long freight yard
a 4 track, 8’ long passenger terminal
a 40 car piggyback terminal
a 20 car c
Yes, but don’tg forget that on a switching shelf, a staging yard can aslo be a metal ghutter shape with one end closed and track in it. Take it down, put new train in, add to tlayout.
My dream layout will actullay have two stagers, I want a p-to-p of Madison IN, and there’s a stoarge yard in the old Jefferson Proving Grounds. The Interchanged Chessie would be an around the layout (like the Staging is for the Lakeside Lines I think) single track loop with a large yard in the back of it, along with the interchange yard of the CMPA. But that;s for a larger layyot. For a smaller shelf, a few offstage wings will to the trick.
Craig…
Yes, staging is worth it. My C&O transition era RR would not work without it given its modest footprint (10 x 13 - we don’t have basements here in the Low Country of SC, so its in the garage) and I’ve opted for a continous run feature. Though in practice the RR will be operated as if its point to point.
On option for ‘monitoring’ hidden staging tracks is cheap, low light capable security cameras and a video monitor. I used a very small wireless video baby monitor on the previous RR and it worked out very nicely. If you shop carefully the cost can be the same and maybe less as compared to electronic detection systems - plus you get the all important warm fuzzy by being able to see things.
Charles