I did alot of thinking yesterday and like I said yesterday in my post I’m going to start over and take the last layout as a learning lesson. I have decided to go ahead and build my own benchwork myself. Are there any websites that give free track plans and or design your own. I don’t know exactly what I want but I know that I’m still doing HO obviously and I have the same basic space which is 5x9’. I do want water scenery in my layout, some elevation, and no basic ovals. Since I love passenger trains and urban areas, I don’t know if I’m going to do any mountain scenery since I don’t have enough space for a effective transition. Thought about a island type of layout or something similar. I do want a double main line for the most part. Any ideas or track plans that you have in mind would be greatly appreciated. Love this forum for its honesty. Just brainstorming and haven’t figured out what I want to do though…
The problem of course is that passenger train platforms are 4’ long or more. LION uses 4’ platforms. LION runs subway trains. Trains are six cars long (300 scaly feet).
Now if you want a REAL passenger train with six ot eight 85’ cars including multiple locomotives, and you would have a 10’ to 12’ long platform. This will not fit on a 9’ long table.
Since you like passenger trains, AND urban areas, I think you will have to content yourself with commuter trains. Make things easy on yourself: Use push-pull trains. This is what LION did before him bought SUBWAY CARS! A four to six track terminal on a 2’x9’ section will allow a turn that would bring trains into a 2 or four track suburban station on the other side of the room. Put the mountain on the curve to disguise it.
From there, if you get ambitious you could loop around the room again to an upper or lower level, but wile the LION has many loops and levels, him does not have any ducks. (Him ate all of the ducks so no can have duck-under)
So I’ll leave you to ponder these thoughts, I just received another 1000’ spool of wire, and so I am off to the train room
Do yourself a huge favor and stock up on some MR books. Kalmbach has published all kinds that would be of help to you (as have other publishers). The thing about them is they will be useful for years to come. If you don’t care to buy new, check on Ebay and you will find a huge selection at reasonable prices for layout design, track plans, benchwork, wiring, etc., etc.
I’ve been playing with trains for almost 60 years, and you can take this advice to the bank. Get the reading material and bone up on the hobby before you put any wood together or lay any track. While it may seem like torture, taking your time up front will pay enormous dividends in the long run.
Thanks for the tip…actually that’s what I meant to say. I actually like commuter railroads more than Amtrak for the push/pull operation although instead of having a point to point layout I do want a loop at both ends because as mentioned above the train would get to the other end so quickly it would be pointless and look almost fake. I do want some industries and switching for my freight engines as well. I’m trying to see if I go with a island layout like in the shape of an L how much operation and fun can I get out of that as opposed to the 5x9 rectangle that I was accustomed to?
If you go with a 5x9 plan, you can break up the oval by putting a scenic divider down the center of the layout. Extending it from one end to about 80% to the other end will effectively turn it into a 2.5’ x 18’ shelf layout. One common problem that people make when trying to avoid having an oval in a small space is that they create a twisted bowl of spaghetti that is neither realistic nor allows for much in the way of scenery or industry.
Silly Goose! LIONS do not read, they simply look at the pictures, get an idea and then try to build it. If it works, you keep building, if it does not, you go back to the pot and cook it some more.
If your table was 5x9, then your room was much bigger, at least 9x12 or more I would guess. This gives you a chance to make your downtown station at the end of a 6 or 8 foot section say 24" wide across the short end of the room, and then on the other leg of the “L” a line that goes up the long side of the room and turns across the far short side of the room and make this your suburban station.
Make another line on the same side of the room that goes down and makes a loop at the far end of the room under the first station. You will have to make it an open loop so that you can pop up in the middle to work on it. Along the long side you have some staging ahead of the loop.
That gives you some nice operation in a small space.
NOW go look at the layout of the LION. Him has a room 24’ x 27’, him has mane lion on three levels along the east and south walls, with blobs in the middle. There are 14 scale miles of track, nine of them on the “Broadway Local” which is what I run. (there are two “Express” loops but these do not require my attention.
But all of my switching activity takes place on a 14’ long 12" wide two track terminal. This is 242nd Street: trains run from here, around the 9 mile local line and return here 20 minutes later. So it really does not matter at all how long “out there” is. It can be nine miles or nine feet, your work takes place in the terminal. And mine is only a two track terminal. You build six or eight tracks in a Union Station somewhere, and you will have all of the commuter action you can handle.
I was afraid you might come to that conclusion, but probably for the best. Your experience is sooo much like mine years back. The criteria I used for my current design is probably overly conservative as a result, but I am determined to end up with bullet-proof operation this time.
I just Googled ho 5x9 layout and came up with a bunch of links (many of which came back to this forum) which are quite interesting reads. There are a lot of options out there.
If you are good with computers you can download software that will let you play around with various designs. I used XTrackCad to come up with my current layout. The software is good for keeping you out of trouble since it will not allow you to force-fit anything, or at least make it obvious when you do.
While you are considering and researching, why not try some radical modifications to your layout just to see how it works out? Replace some of the bad ply sub-roadbed, try some higher quality turnouts and switch machines, re-route some of the more troublesome track. Though it did not fix all the problems I found this sort of experimenting fun and I learned a lot from it.
That is still a lot to cram into a 5x9. However a 5x9 is perfect for taking a 4x8 plan and just relaxing it into the space.
Please clarify by what you mean by no basic ovals. Do you mean figure-8, folded dog-bone, or what? I’ve always liked the twice-around folded figure-8 climbing a hill. I think that would be really crazy with double track. On the other hand the “non-braching branch” from the April 1957 MR has the “look” of a double track main line.
I mean I don’t want a basic circle with a couple of sidings…even with spectacular scenery that gets old pretty fast. That was my first layout 4x8’actually. I actually like the track plan Burlington Northern gave me as it was something I looked at myself a while ago and probably would be good for a shelf/island layout in my given space. The one below is something I would like. Definitely want bridges and water scenery…don’t think that’s asking for two much…Double track main isn’t that bad and it can be single main at some point which would make for interesting operations as trains would have to hold up where another train is coming through the single track main line. If I do a shelf layout I could actually 4-7ft by 9-10ft…
It looks to me that,the track plan that you just posted,has to be sort of a two level and if you had trouble with your other layout,with grades,this one looks to be just as challenging,if not more so…Just my thought!!
A dog-bone run around the wall like the layout you posted gives more opportunity for reasonable grades for elevated crossovers, but the elevation changes and turnarounds do take a bunch of room. That’s essentially what I decided to do, and keeping mainline radius to 24" I ended up with a 12’x14’ plan. If you are OK with 18" radius curves then you could get it a good bit smaller, but then you will have to watch the grades carefully. Also especially since you are interested in passenger service I suggest that you get away from sectional track plans based on snap switches and use flex track with easements into the curves. That would also help keep your cars hooked up and the wheels on the rails.
A 5x9 footprint does not lend itself to elevated crossovers, but that does not mean that it has to be flat. You can still build in grades and bridges over streams and valleys, and the bench work would be much less complex. I considered doing just that before deciding to jump in whole-hog with the bigger layout.
OK, let’s try and pull this all together, so we can all wrap our arms around this layout building issue.
You are a Chicago guy and like the CTA (urban elevated passenger cars) and Metra (suburban commuter trains).
You are not skilled and lack the tools to build your own benchwork.
You want a 5’ x 9’ layout. How big is your room? Can you set it up in the middle of the room to gain access from all sides? Can it fit up against one wall so you still have access from three sides?
You want a double main line loop for passenger train operations.
You want to run freight trains and conduct operations.
You love scenery and want some water (rivers, streams, maybe bridges) on your layout.
Elevations are desirable but not essential.
Does this pretty much sum up your major objectives?
Here are several pics of my basement which isn’t that big by any standards…maybe 15x15. Sorry for the clothes…Had a major flood down here in April and haven’t been down here much but to try and salvage and repair the current layout I have. But yes Rich you would be correct on all your assumptions. Doesn’t have to exactly 5x9 if I do a around the walls layout on two sides…I don’t want the train blocking the stairs since there is a bathroom to the right at the back and the laundryroom on that same wall over to the right.
