Frist of all I am very new to this hobby, track, well blows but track laying skills are getting better. Track is DC, still have 18" turns and hope to dump them soon.
I asked Ken at K-10 trains about them and he said "stay away from them they are a pain in the —! But as we knoow the more we are told we don’t want one, well more we want one.
At this point I cannot afford the good stuff like Broadway ( I think that is good) but been looking at Bachman, not there sperctem line but what I think is called Dad Light or something like that. Sorry I am new.
From what little I know Bachman are hit or miss. Either run well or badly. I like this onee a lot, I think it was called War Baby? It is a 2-8-2, well again that is what I think and I don’t think well or spell well either.[:D]
Would a 2-8-2 be more than a 18 turn can handle? I be open to a 2-6-2 or something along that sizes. I now I don’t want a 4 wheel drive only engine.
cudaken, I am in N-Scale but I’m going to tackle the last half of you post based upon my previous experience in HO.
I owned several Mantua/Tyco Pacifics (4-6-2) and Mikes - Mikados - (2-8-2) They were engineered for 18 inch radius curves and I never had too much trouble with them - most of my troubles on that tight a curve with that size steam loke was caused by defective tender trucks. I have no experience whatsoever with Bachmann HO - I do have several Bachmann N-Scale units, all Spectrums by the way, and they run just fine. Bachmann gets a lot of badmouthing here on the forum but somehow they manage to stay in business so the trade is going somewhere. None of us have fifty to sixty bucks to kick loosely around but you are the one that has to take the risk and you are the only one who can determine if it is worth it.
I still have the Bachmann steamer (Northern 4-8-4) that came with the Overland Limited train set, and it runs fine. I replaced the headlight with a resistor and 1.5v grain of wheat bulb. I believe it came with 18in radius curves and it ran fine around them, although has quite a bit of pilot overhang.
The War Baby is a 4-8-4 GS-4 I’m assuming it is a newer Bachmann (silver series) if it’s one of the older locomotives (with the pancake - flat motor) give it a miss the silver series loco will be fine,the older stlye (pancake motored) War baby is a disaster (gear breakage problems a lack of parts to fix it, outside of a Bowser repower kit).The Bachmann Spectrum line of steam engines are well worth the money (I don’t have any of the Spectrum diesel locomotives so I can’t comment on them) I haven’t had any problems with mine (2 Heavy Mountains 4-8-2, 1 USRA 2-6-6-2, 2 USRA Light Sante Fe types 2-10-2, 1 Decapod 2-10-0 and 1 GS-4 4-8-4 War Baby siver series). The War Baby, the USRA 2-10-2 and the USRA 2-6-6-2 all will run on 18 inch radius curves (but will obviously be better on 22 + inch radius curves).
Steam is fun, its just how detailed interest you want to have fun with. You can build steamers from Bowser. Takes patience, but you will build a good steamer.
but for the want to run it now crowd, that engine will do you fine, and its a 4-8-4.
Most of the non-fineline stuff should take 18 inch.
If you buy a good steamer it will run forever, but its no different than a diesel either, buy a bad diesel, poof, its no good, so whatever you like.
If your hobbyist says its a pain in the****, he don’t know the hobby very well.
ill agree with dinwitty with the bowser…cuda drop me a line i got something on E that youd like if youre thinking steam. I definetly think you should upgrade to the larger curves though as u said you would. youll find that equipement works so much better and everything looks more realistic. im working my way to steam too but its much more expensive it seems
I have about 25 steam engines mostly IHC and BLI. I have not had any problems with them at all. I pull both freight and passenger trains on a large layout. Steam is fun to run and I cannot understand why a hobby shop would tell you that they were nothing but trouble. As someone else mentioned, you also get a bad diesel once in a while. You just fix it and move on.
A major problem with some Bachmann steam engines had to do with the drive wheels coming off of their axles. The axles were nylon, and there is no glue that will stick to nylon to hold the wheels.
Cudaken
If you don’t mind a quick lesson…
Steam engines… big smelly things that stand around cold until some poor guy creeps out of bed on a cold morning, climbs into an enormous firebox to light a very small fire which over the next several hours he builds up to be a massive lump of white hot coal that would melt the metal above it if the other side wasn’t several hundred gallons of water. That water gets turned to steam at 200lbs per sqare inch or more… so if things go wrong the whole lot can go BANG big time.
Then some other guy goes round a whole load of complicated machinery bits with an oil can. The thing is supposed to have forced feed lubrication but this is even worse than a Rice Burning Motorcycle [V][xx(][:(!] so he goes round and checks and tops up every time the monster has done a few miles.
Then another guy in a funny hat comes along and takes this nicely cleaned, well oiled machine out on the track, runs all the oil out, burns all the fuel, uses up the water AND GETS IT DIRTY!
[i]AND[/i**] that** guy don’t even park it when he brings it back! Some poor scmuck called a Hostler has to do all that… and a whole team of guys have to climb all over and under it cleaning the grit and dead bugs off it so that it shines like it did when the first poor guy climbed out of bed and went lit the fire.
Now a nice diesel engine you climb in, press the start switch, let the engine idle to warm up for a bit while you get comfy in a nice fully closed cab (with a heater, a cooker a water cooler and a john), then you pull up to the fuelling rack, top off the tank and off you go to run around for the day. When you get back you slide it through an oversized car wash (unless you work for SP when you get a few buckets of mud and through them at it) tuck it up for the night and go off to soak up a few nice cool beers of your choice.
It’s like with your cars… which did you prefer? Jumping in the the car and riding or feeding the horse and mucki
Rule # 1 for smooth running through well laid curves…keep them as large as you can.
Why? Fewer tracking problems, and better looks. If you can find a way to broaden your curves, your engine pilots and cabs won’t hang way out over the outer ties on the curves and look like a locomotive in the wrong place.
Of course, if 18" is it for all sorts of perfectly good reasons, then by all means enjoy whatever you can get to run on them reliably.
The Spectrum 2-8-0 will negotiate 18’ curves, and is arguably the best locomotive that you can get from that stock. Trainworld is unloading them at a very good price these days. No guessing about pancake motors from trainworld.com.
Like their prototypes, model steam locos require more maintenance (and have more things that can go wrong) than model diesels. Careful inspection every week or so (if operated daily) is a very good idea.
All but a few of the locos I operate regularly are 1960’s issue brass models of Japanese prototypes (inexpensive then - I cringe when I see what they cost now!) Issues are crankpin screws (which can loosen) and lubrication of rod bearings, axle boxes and open gearboxes (not to mention open-frame motors.)
Years ago I owned a few pancake motor Bachmann locos, which never gave me problems then. I sold them off when I left that club, along with my few pieces of un-adaptable U.S. prototype rolling stock.
More recently, I just added a couple of Bachmann Spectrum 0-6-0T’s to the roster. They run nicely right out of the box, are very quiet and pull as well as the equivalent brass, while using about 1/4 the power.
The nice thing about steam locos on a model railroad is the “wow” factor when visitors see them. Diesels and catenary motors look the same whether they are standing still or running at track (or supersonic) speed. With crossheads shuttling back and forth and rods churning, there’s no question that a steamer is under way.
If you are thinking about a Bachmann Steamer, go with the Spectrum series. I have two of them, a USRA 2-6-6-2 and a USRA 4-8-2. They both run smoothly and are well detailed and (knock on coal) have had zero problems. As of next week, I will have two more a Russian Decapod and a 4-6-0. I will know soon if they are as good as the two I already have. Stay away from the standard line from Bachmann as they are more apt to give you troubles.
As for steam vs. Deisel? Very much one of personal preference. I am a big fan of steam and don’t find much that attracts me to the deisels. All the things that David Foster said about steamers are exactly why I love them. The 1:1 scale ones are dirty, smelly (ah! What a wonderful smell, coal gas!), had to be carefully maintained, etc. Take a trip to a Steam Museum and spend a day watching the crews at work with steam and you will be hooked.
As for scale models, there isn’t that much difference in maintainance. To disassemble and repair steam locos requires some specialized equipment such as a quartering tool, but you still have to lubricate and clean either steam or deisel.
Ready for lesson 2?
Okay 18" curves.
This one’s easy.
You’ve got an old push bike, your auto, a delivery van and a semi - which one are you going to move around on most in your yard? But put them out on the interstate…
We can cheat… if you look at the wheels on a lot of the bigger steamers you will find that the mid wheels have no flange… this allows them to slide over the rail head… but slide to far and (if there’s any uneven-ness) they will get wrong side of the rail head and not come back… then the whole thing drops off. It’s kind of like using a cab and drag instead of a semi… very clever but you have to know what’s going on.
The LHS man probably figures that steam is a pain because more customers bring them back with issues than bring back diesels… you’ve got to think about where he’s looking at it from.
Okay, I’m on a roll so…
Lesson 3.
If you take a steamer and a diesel and turn them upside down you will see two completely different beasts.
A steamer like the ones both you and Medina 1128 have posted starts from the front with a swivel truck which has two axles and four wheels. Then you get four fixed axles (8 wheels) in the main frame. These “drivers” are linked together by coupling rods… they’re what do the work. Then you have another swivel truck like the first. This beast is a 4-8-4.
If there were no trucks it would be an 0-8-0. The same truck at the front and a single axle truck at the back would be a 4-8-2. Only three driven axles an 0-6-0. Five coupled axles put -10- in the middle. The real big stuff, Mallets and the like are 4-8-8-4… two lots of drivers (the front one on a mallet is articulated).
Okay, so if we go to the diesel…
Using Medina 1128’s switcher…
There are two trucks underneath. You can’t see any evidence for it but all the axles are driven. this is normal in all modern US diesels. This one is simply known as a “four axle”. The only other thin
Anyway I have about 30 steamers and they are made by IHC, Athearn, Bachmann, BLI, Rivarossi and Life Like.
18" curves will limit you as far as size of engine. The Articulated’s such as Athearn’s 4-6-6-4 or Life Like’s 2-6-6-2 will work on 18" curves.
Larger engines such as 4-8-4’s and 2-10-2/4’s forget it!
Despite what you’ve heard Bachmann makes a nice engine but they do have issues from time to time with quality control. Saying that I’ve found their service people to be excellent when it comes to making things right.
IHC is dependableand smooth, but generic with little detail or concern for accuracy.
LL: very good but $$$
BLI and Athearn are both very good and smooth runners and my 4-6-6-4 is one of my favourite engines.
G’day, Y’all,
At the late, lamented The Great Train Store in Atlanta, we ran trains under a bubble. Nothing laslted as long as a Silver Series (I think) Bachmann Baby Trainmaster. P2K E7s might run steadily at 2.5 inches in 20 minutes and you could watch their progress, but when we had to have reliability, it was a Bachmann. Even the $39.95 starter Unnion Pacific F unit would run and run and run.
Boy, I miss working at TGTS. We had the nicest people come in. And we also, of course, had the mothers of triplets who felt our store should have aisles wide enouigh for her three across stroller to go through easily.
I’m a diesel man right now, because I model the late 1960’s. Lately, though, I’ve been watching, and particularly listening to the new steamers running around my LHS’s in-store layout. That, and inspiration from Bob Grech’s photos, are making me think of ways to dual-era my layout one of these days.
You really do owe it to yourself to stop, look and listen next time you get a chance to see a current-generation, top-of-the-line steam engine with sound. Remember when you were a kid and you saw that model in the window that you just had to get? Yeah, that’s the feeling.
Well, cudaken, it all boils down to what era you are modeling. There weren’t many steamers on the railroads into the sixties. Most had dieselized by 1955 or so. I moved to the Chicago area in 1957. On my way to work I passed the giant EMD plant which was cranking out diesels by the hundreds. Their next door neighbor was a giant scrapyard that took in the steamers that were deadheaded in to be scrapped. Too few, if any, were saved for history. The only diesels that were compatible with that era were Alco DL-109s, PAs and FA/FB, RS1-3 and the yard switchers. EMD had the E and F series and later the geeps. but that was about it for the fifties.
I have a 4-8-4 Niagara with the same mechanism as the War Baby. It runs smoothly and silently, and it’s heavy enough to pull a decent load.[:D] It also handles 18" curves without a problem, except for a little wobbling from being on such a tight curve, but that’s not really a problem. The detail is pretty good, too. I would suggest giving the front truck a stronger spring, or it will derail all over the place.[:O]
Hey! I have that same one! I got it in the same set!
I have not made any modifications to mine however. It is a fine looking locomotive for Bachmann’s standard line, and runs excellently. It doesn’t have bad pulling power either.
It can indeed handle 18" radius curves, and yes the overhang is a bit much.
The smoke fluid that was included however, didn’t seem to do much…But this can be solved by using LGB smoke fluid/track cleaner, or by running it on a DCC station with an analog control mode.
