Hi - hoping to tap in to the wealth of knowledge here to help plan my 1920’s New England layout.
I wonder what was most common practice on small branch lines when a local would run to the end of the line and have to return. Would all branch lines have turning facilities, or did locos make return runs tender-first as routine? I won’t have room for a turning loop or a wye on my shelf layout, but a small turntable would fit. Would that have been the norm in such cases?
Thanks,
Bob
Bob,It would depend on the branch some had a wye,some a armstrong turntable and others nothing.
A branch could have been built as a second thought to appease the local or state government or may have started life as a locally backed short line to give a community rail access and this short line was bought by a larger road and could have all the trimmings line a one or two stall engine house,turntable a water tank and coal tipple…
Another thing is as traffic died on the branch railroads would take track out of service since there was no traffic left beyond a small town or mile post, some times a flood would damage or destroy a bridge and the railroad elected not to repair or replace the bridge.
So,it wasn’t uncommon for a steam engine to return tender first on some branch lines…
Bob,
In New England, there was a bit more of a tendency to use Forney’s or other style tank engines, so your regional flavor is working in your favor if you want to use that as a solution for motive power.
On many roads, engines assigned to service that included reverse running would often be equipped with rear headlights, sometimes even a pilot, on the rear of the tender. Tenders would sometimes have coal pocket extensions that were narrow enough that the engineer could see past them easily when backing.
And also how much money the financiers of the rail line were willing to spend.
As a fun fact some times the head brakeman would ride on the tender deck and watch things and signal the engineer if there was a need.
I’ve seen photos of cabooses with headlights mounted on the roof and combines that had a headlight mounted either off center or center…I suppose the brakeman would ride on the platform protecting the shove.
Although it wasn’t unheard of for a steam engine to work backwards on a branch line that didn’t have a turntable or other turning facility at the end of the line, it was much less common than it would be for a line served by a diesel. In fact, many of the early diesel purchases were specifically for serving a branchline so that a turntable could be eliminated. (For example, EMD’s BL-1 and BL-2 engines, BL stood for “Branch Line”, and were an attempt to modify the FT diesel to serve branch lines, switch yards etc.)
Thanks everyone for the very useful information. I think I’ll try to incorporate an Armstrong turntable if I can, because I like seeing turntables in operation, but if not then at least a run-around so that the engine can run tender first at the right end at least!
It’s all about what floats your boat. If a line didn’t have a runaround at the end (maybe it was truncated), the train might return caboose first.
The crew may have found it easier or quicker to also go caboose first.
How steep is the grade getting up to the end of the line? You might have to back down to keep the water level above the slope sheet.
Hmmm - it’s “show my ignorance” time. Can you explain the slope sheet and hence your comment, please?
I’m guessing that maxman meant to say “crownsheet” which referred to the top of the firebox (inside the boiler). If the waterlevel in the boiler drops low enough to expose the crown sheet, the heat in the firebox will weaken the steel to a point where the steam pressure in the boiler will cause it to rupture. When that occurs, all of the water in the boiler will instantly turn to steam due to the pressure drop. This is known as a boiler explosion.
The slope sheet is usually used in reference to either a coal tender or an open hopper, and is, literally, a sloping sheet which directs the coal to the outlet doors in a hopper, or to the deck plate or stoker screw in a tender.
As for steam on branchlines, the CNR had many in southern Ontario where there was a turntable at the end of the line, often simply sitting in a field with no other structures nearby. These were sometimes an armstrong-type, but many had an air-operated mechanism, to which the locomotive’s brake hose could be connected, thereby powering the turntable.
Wayne
Thanks, Wayne. That makes a lot of sense. I’d taken “slope sheet” as being tender-related too, and hence couldn’t make sense of the comment.
Agreed that a boiler explosion would be a tad unpopular back at the depot!
Yes, you are guessing correctly, that is zactly what I meant. Thanks for the correction/clarification.
It may surprise you but,it was very common if you add urban industrial branches,coal mine branches,transfer runs,some short turns that served outlaying steel mills,oil refineries,coke plants and power plants-recall that was before unit trains and a transfer job was used for these industries.
Railroads had no issues running tender first if there was a need-only we modelers has issues doing that.
Here’s a little trick the railroaders would use…If there was no rules stating the engine had to be turn the crew may elect to return tender first or just make a reverse move with combine or caboose lead.
The crew knew that the armstrong turntable may be hard to turn due to the lack of maintenance just like the rest of the branch.
What about the poor engineer’s back or neck from being twisted around? No problem…Many engineers made a back rest so they could set sideways in the seat.
Thank You
A lot of it depends on how far the engine had to go and at what speed. A steam engine going backwards generally was limited to 10-20 mph max. If its a 45 mph branch then going backwards would be a problem. If its a 10 mph branch then there is no speed penalty forwards or backwards.
It also depends on that the engine does at the “beginning” of the branch, the junction with the “main line”. Does it terminate there or does it continue onto the main line and terminate at a yard on the main line? I can pretty much guaruntee that they would not have a steam engine running backwards for any extended distance on the main line because of the speed penalty. Is there a turning facility at the junction with the main line?
If the branch is short (less than 10 miles) and low speed (15 mph or less) then running backwards is not a big deal. If the branch is long (25-100 miles) and higher speed (25-45 mph) then they would probably have a way to turn the power. If the branch handled passenger service they probably would be more likely to turn the power.
The Huntingdon & Broad Top Mountain RR in Pennsylvania had several coal branches with switchbacks, steep grades approaching 5%, and no turning facilities. In order to switch the mines at the ends of those branches, the H&BT’s 2-8-0’s had to spend some time on descending grades. I’m sure they must have been careful to keep the boiler very full, and limit their time on the downhill stretches. It must have been quite a challenge for the fireman.
Tom
C&O had several switchbacks on mine branches in W.Va and Western Virginia. I’m sure you will find switchbacks on CRR,Southern and L&N in the Appalachian coal fields.
A very good point. The branch I have in mind leaves the “main” part of the layout at a small interchange yard where there is also a depot and a couple of small industries, and a small loco service with turntable. So I could very well just run down the branch from there to deliver the milk or whatever, and reverse back again.
Anyway - thanks to everybody who has contributed. All of this is feeding in to the plan, and when I start building (hopefully middle of next year) I shall journal my efforts here.
Bob