I have a PFM Brass, Northern Pacific, Y-1 2-8-0 consolidation that I want to install DCC with Head and Back-up LEDs in. How are you guys doing this, now? I used to buy complete sets for the above from Scale Rail Graphics. They appear to be defunct now. Steer me to a good website. I have digitrax equipment.
NP,
Are you talking the decoder or the lighting or both together as a complete conversion for that loco?
My only steam installs are Tsunamis in brass (my HOn3 locos), but if you’re not going sound, you’ll have more options and space to fit it all in with Digitrax. First thing is to consider whether or not you’ll keep what I’m guessing is an open-frame motor. Whatever you choose, keep old one or sub a new can-motor, the next step is to isolate that motor.
I also add wipers for the loco on the black/left side and to the tender on the red/right side. May not be strictly necessary if doing just a decoder, I find them essential for reliable sound performance.
I use SMD LEDs (www.ulrichmodels.com, I think) with pre-attached leads, figure out how to run the wires inside the shell from the headlight. Then I canopy glue the LED at the back of the headlight casting, aligning it carefully to dry, then use a MV lens with the silvering removed from enough of the back for a good imitation of an actual lamp’s look inside the lens.The resistors tuck away inside wherever convenient.
Something that eliminates one wire from the tender to loco is to use half-wave control of the loco headlight. Instead of running the +/blue wire forward, I just keep it in the tender, but use on of the loco wipers to bring + up to the LED, then use only the -/white lead to ground the LED to light it. You may have to use a little less resistance with the headlight LED, as doing it this way tends to be dimmer than via +/blue since you’re only taking half-wave from track to feed it.
Anyway, I’ve probably swerved away from what you’re aiming for here, but let me know if I can be of better assistance after more feedback.
Nope, Mike, your right on target! I am considering installing the Soundtraxx Tsunami Medium Steam Sound Decoder. I hope to use the MV lenses for both lights and LEDs for both lights and was wondering who makes LED light kits for this purpose. Maybe kits are no longer available or even needed as an LED and resistor is all that is needed, and if so, what are you guys using?
Thanks for the come back!
Mark
Mark,
Cool, glad it was useful. Nope, I don’t use kits. Ulrich offers the LEDs and they also have the common resistors sizes, as well as a neat little resistor board that allows you to set that up for several different lighting functions. It’s more for diesels, but could work for a head- and back-up light set-up on a steamer.
It’s likely not possible to get the full size Tsunami in the loco, but if you go with the TSU-750 that might be possible. In that case, I’d make the back-up light the one on half-wave, using the yellow/- wire. You really should consider a can motor, which should have a low enough amp draw the the Mini-Tsu won’t be stretched. The can motor will be easy to insulate.
I highly recommend adding wipers in this case. For that, I use Clover House PCB tie material, cutting a small pad to serve as the wiper/wiring interface for the wipers. The wipers are Tichy phosper-bronze 0.010" wire.
The final ingredient is very fine hookup wire, usually 32 gauge, but the most critical factor is a very flexible insulation and a high strand count for the wire.
Lots more detail later, but gotta go see mom right now.[8D]
Mark, a lot would have to do with the output connections on your decoders. If it’s higher than 1.5 volts, yes, you would need resistors. If it’s 1.5 volts, then the only thing you’d need to worry about is the polarity of the LED.
My loco has a can motor already installed. Don’t know if this was a replacement or that is how it came from the factory. I would be installing both the decoder and speaker in the tender, which has quite a bit of room. I will look at the Medium Steam and Mini Tsu to see how much room they take up.
Have there been threads on this type of installation? If so, I’m guessing they would be in the dcc forum and will have a gander.
Sounds like a plan coming together. You do want to make sure she runs as well as she ever will on DC before you start in on adding the decoder. If you can check current draw on DC, that’s a good idea to confirm all is running well. With a can motor, it should be under 1/2 amp, which should give you some headroom with the Micro-Tsu’s 0.75 amp rating. If over 0.5 amp, then you’ll probably want to stick to the full-size Tsunami.
In general, if you can get the full-size Tsu in there, you’ll be better off as that gives plenty of capacity to draw on and it runs cooler. The TSU-750 tend to run a little hot, so when the Blackstone C-19s came out with their Mini-Tsus, I dialed my DCC voltage down to 12.5 volts as an extra margin of safety. This can cause issues with resistor installs for LEDs and bulbs setup for higher voltages, but you also don’t need to go that low.
Here’s where you can find a bunch of help, a MMR friend from Australia. He’s got all kinds of DCC installs and info on youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/user/scoopmmr/videos
Something else you’ll want is tiny heatshrink:
http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/475-HST36410
I also use liquid electrical tape sometimes for odd junctions that shrink won’t cover.
BTW, on the wire, 30 gauge is also good. Here’s one example from Miniatronics:
http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/475-4813004
Here’s a couple of handy references/primers on LED installs:
http://www.members.optusnet.com.au/nswmn1/Lights_in_DCC.htm
http://markschutzer.com/Brass_Clinics/InstallingDecoders2009.pdf
Wow, Mike, You come to the table prepared!
No sweat. We historians gotta have our citations handy and be able to work from them for more references to supplement and expand on them.
Scoop taught me most of what I know about this stuff. If you ever get the itch for narrowgauge, let me know and I can hook you up with the HOn3 crowd we run with, very supportive and just a little crazy, too…[*-)][%-)][:o)]
EDIT (didn’t want to needlessly bump the thread): BTW, got to thinking about the Mini-Tsu more. It’s probably more advisable to have amp draw at no more than 50% of 0.75 amp, so about 0.375 amp of less. Part of the reason I’m saying this is not knowing how broken in the drive you’re using is. It’s one thing to drop one in a factory spec mechanism built for it with the latest technology, but I’m thinking you want to give yourself some extra room so you don’t chance smoking that -750.
So this also relates to my comment about ensuring good running on DC prior to starting in on the Tsunami install. If needing broken in, that loco could go from high amp draw and a tight mechanism to a substantially lower draw and a smoother, more easily started one. In other words, it might be possible to get itb running well enough to be safe with a -750 if it isn’t right now.
Of course, you may know that engine has been run plenty and is smooth as glass already. Often, brass isn’t and that’s kind of important to at least know where you’re at on that as you begin.
The loco used to be very smooth running and my best steamer.
The Tsunami TSU1000 Light Steam 826101 will fit in the tender, which has holes for a speaker already put in. I understand that locating the speaker in the boiler, puts the sound closer to the cylinders, bell and whistle. However, I really don’t want to remove any weight over the drivers and there is no way I can put a speaker in the boiler, unless I cut out some weight, so the tender it is.
Is a cam necessary? I would think you could match speed to chuff through programing.
I’ll have to run amperage tests on a test track, as I don’t have an amp meter installed in my panel.
I’ve installed decoders in 2 other steamers and 6 diesels, none were sound decoders, so this is a bit different.
Thanks for all the suggestions and links Mike!
Were I to start over, I would probably go with Sn3; or, maybe On30. However, lots of money and time is tied up in HO standard, so I’ll be staying where I am. All these guys who tear down and start over when they reach there 60s amaze me! How many years do they expect to live? I’m truly thankful to have made it to 62!
Here she is:
That’s a good looking loco! If you’re confident in the drive and are gonna use a TSU-1000, probably less of an issue with sweating the amp reading. It’ll likely be good, but never hurts to know.
Speakers in the boiler are nice, but I agree not worth the sacrifice in tractive effort.
The Tsunami’s pseudo-cam works pretty darn good. The drive can get out of synch with the sound briefly, but mostly works as well as a physical cam. I don’t think it’s worth the effort for most of us to install a cam if it requires a tear down. There are cams that don’t require pulling the chassis apart, but they also don’t hold up as well in service from what I’ve heard.
It does amaze me that some folks want a clean sheet of paper when they reach the post-55 demographic. On the other hand, every new layout is a journey and some people enjoy the journey as much as they do the destination, so I can see doing it if one has the time, resources and – potentially – the added help one needs to build at that age. Personally, I never want to have to wire a layout again – too many places hurt already before I even get under the layout[xx(][oops]
I have kinda been that way. I like the building aspect of a model railroad far better than just running trains. That is why I’ve decided I need to finally attempt to Operate what I have.
Funny how you start out with some things in mind: Mostly for me it was running trains in what would mostly be considered a Narrow Gage Country: mountains, tunnels, high bridges and trestles, etc. Then, while in the process, you learn about the benefits of specific things (I’da done that different, if I were to start over). You learn very quickly that the process of designing a model railroad is fraught with many pitfalls and the present layout has some pitfalls that just had to be changed; but, for the most part you learn to live with some that you can barely tolerate!
Possibly, if I were 55 or younger, I could be talked into starting over. Who knows, maybe I will talk myself into it sometime in the future! After all, it is the process and not the end result that I find interesting!