ok this is my first post, I am building a 4x8 ho layout. I plan on an outside loop with 22 radius and a inner loop with 18. gonna connect the two with some switches and put a few small spurs in. y question is this, what size steam engine can I use? I know I cannot fit the really big ones but I really want a steam loco, and a good one at that. any advice or help would be nice. thanks:) just a quick up date, my layout is still uder construction (winter is almost here and I want to keep busy) I have a double loop and got some power to it. put my loco on it and it works great! I am still working on the track plan, I do want to expand it, but so far things are going well thanks to all the help from this website and my local train shop. michigan model Train Center, located right here in pinckney! I did have a problem with some factory abuse of the loco (bent parte) but my retailer took one look at it and fixed it in 3 min flat. on-line shopping does save some money, but supporting your local dealer is more important. I will put some pic’s up in the appropriate form as soon as I get some. thanks, bob
The main thing to look at is the drivers - how many of them are there, and how big are they? A 2-8-0 might be okay, if its 8 drivers are smaller diameter and thus the rigid wheelbase is short. An articulated engine, like a 2-6-6-2, might even work, since it has short rigid wheelbases. The overall engine length is a factor, too, as an aesthetic concern mostly; a long engine will overhang the tight curves.
I model in N-scale, plus I model diesel era, so I really don’t know much that’s of specific help. But I’d say look for 2-6-0’s or 2-6-2’s, or small 2-8-0’s, maybe something as big as a 4-6-2 can work but that’s probably pushing it.
Do you have a favored prototype? Some research into what light steam engines your favorite road actually ran could be helpful.
My layout is also 4’ wide so I have the same curves as you. My suggestion is to pick out engines that appeal to you and check the vendors web site for specifications. Most tell what the minimum radius that the engine can navigate. My guess is that engines with over 8 drivers may have problems.
Another important fact to consider is the lenght of cars. For example realitvely new passenger cars will be off limits as well as modern long freight cars. For this reason I am modeling the transition era so that I can have both steam and the early diesels.
Pick up the longest car you think you may ever run and use it to test your track as you lay it. Your curves may be OK but turnouts into spurs could end up being less than 18" if you are not carefull. I have a few cars that after I cut away some of the detail underneath don’t derail most of the time but I never know. Now I stick with the shorter cars which are really more prototypical for my era.
Good luck and keep in mind it’s a learning experience we all go through.
Bob
I would advise looking for discounts on the Spectrum 2-8-0 or their Decapod 2-10-0, both of which I understand are fine on those curves.
Have you heard of DCC? It may be that you are thinking back to an earlier time when you simply hooked up a power pack and ran one engine at a time on a simple oval . You can still do that…no need to change at all, but there has been a comparatively recent development to running trains that lets you run them more realistically, including at different speeds and directions on the same powered length of track. It is called Digital Command Control. If you need to learn more, find Tony’s Train Exchange on the www and have a read through his DCC primer.
Again, this may be an unwelcome complication for you at this point, but in order to spare you some conversion or selling process if you soon learn that DCC was your preference, you should be looking at engines that have the required decoders in them, or learn how to install them yourself.
Just some thoughts.
-Crandell
Actually, I’ve run my Rivarossi 2-8-8-2 and 2-8-4 locos on 18" radius and Snap switches with no problems. A purist might see a problem with an extreme visual overhang, but with smooth track, no operational problem. I haven’t tried them on 18", but I think my Rivarossi 2-6-6-6 and Bachman 4-8-4 will definitely take 22", and will probably be able to go through 18" if the speed is kept reasonable. I’m not sure about some of the larger upper end brass steamers.
I’m prejudice I’ll admit but you might get the same bug if you look at geared steam locos. They make small (4x8) layouts look larger or at least seem larger since they are slow as turtles but have more visible action than any other engines. A Shay ripping along at a scale 12 mph has pistons flying and drive gears whirling- quite a sight. All will handle 18" radius with no effort. Even thought they seem stuck in first gear the geared locos are a great fit on smaller layouts. Roy
Actually i’m building a HO layout close to this also (an outer and inner loop with switches connecting the loops.) but before i got started did some checking online and glad i did. Originally like you also was goin to use a 4’x8’ layout. Like WP&P said a 2-8-0 engine and tender (which was what came with the set i bought) will work on a 22" no problem and is alittle tight on a 18" turn don’t know how much bigger engine wise you can get with 18". What also has to be factored in is what you’re pulling behind the engine passenger or industrial. On mine while 22" is a fine radius for the engine and tender the problem came with the 3 full size passenger cars that i was going to be pulling behind the 2-8-0. 22" is super tight and the passenger cars are dragged pinned against the rails in the turns. In the end after asking alot of questions and checking some sites that sell HO engines and that put the min radius recommended info on the page a good shot of the engines will make it through a 22" radius (can’t tell you how tight it will be though) with maybe a less then 10% exception needing a 24" radius. Problem is on a 4’x8’ layout the best you can do is a 22" with out running it right to the edge of the board and even if you do then you’re still not going to get a 24" on it. At that point it came down to two choices for me scraping the layout or making the table bigger. Don’t know if space is limited for you but going to a 5’x8’ or bigger table eliminates alot of problems with what you can run because the inner loop can then be 24" and i think the outer could a 26" or 27" radius. After learning all this i managed to find an extra 1’x1’ to get my layout to 5’x9’ to save a headache about this later on.
Some posters have already mentioned the larger engines being able to work on the sharp curves if you have no problem with the looks of the excessive overhang. However, they’re forgetting the fact you’re talking about a double tracked loop with these sharp radii, so overhang becomes a clearance problem on the curves. With the longer engines or cars, you won’t be able to run trains on both loops at the same time without them sideswiping each other. From a practical point of view, I wouldn’t recommend anyting larger than a small drivered 8 coupled steam locomotive. Even steam switchers would be a good choice because the prototype was designed to run on tight curves.
Also, a choice of an earlier era, Civil War to turn of the century, will give you more choices, since the locomotives and cars were smaller and shorter back then.
A 4" separation at track centers is more than enough for all but maybe the overhang of a Big Boy or an H-8 against 75’ and longer cars of a type. No one has recommended their joint use to the OP.
-Crandell
thanks for all the good advice! I was going to down size my desire but went ahead and got a spectrum 2-8-0. it was at a great price and after seeing it work in a video on utube I was convinced. I will try and get some shots of the layout when I get started, along with some feed back on how it works out. thanks again:)
Hi scottieboy,
If you are still laying track, here’s a tip that I just learned by not following my own advice. I bought a BLI Hudson 4-6-4 that was on sale and it found problems with my track.
Namely, I had several curves that attached directly to the “through” section of the turnout causing it to derail. Adding a small straight scection between the curve and the turnout solved the problem. I remember reading this on the forum. As a newbe it pays to read as much as you can. Also if you plan any “S” curves you need to check them closely.
Let us know when you are up and running.
Good luck,
Bob
The Bachmann Spectrum 2-8-0 is a fine steamer. Mine handles 18 inch curves no problem. Yours should do the same.
As a general rule, HO makers do what ever is necessary to make their product run on 18 inch curves. If they cannot make 18 inch curves they usually mark the box with the required minimum radius, on the theory that when their product derails on every curve the customer will bring it back and demand a refund. If the box doesn’t have a minimum radius marked on it, it is fairly safe to assume that it works on 18 inch curves.
If you do spiral easements on your curves and avoid S-curves you can run longer stuff than is possible with a plain snap-track layout. “Track Planning for Realistic Operation” by John Armstrong is the bible for model trackwork, and discusses both issues. It is the essential book for building model railroads large and small.