the nations that i understand that gave up steam locos in commercial use are u.s., canada, scandinavia, holland and switzerland… i wonder why the rest of the world still uses it… steam locos are labor-intensive and consume a lot of time in maintenance… the last major enhancement came when steam switched to fuel oil over coal… it freed the fireman from shoveling coal and much time in maintenance and people performing it… still, diesel locos have been around since the 30s… many diesels have been working for 50 + years and still do, with regular maintenance… so, why is steam so popular? i spent 3 years as a teenager in germany in the 60s… i was surprised at the high usage of steam in germany, france and other places…
if steam locos throw out so much pollution, use so much of an expensive-to-process fossil fuel, requires intensive maintenance and many people to support its longevity, why do countries still use it? diesel engines have been around since fdr was pres., require next-to-no-maintenance, are nearly pollution-free and easier to train new people on… electrified rail is very expensive to set-up and maintain-- diesel engines operate at much lower cost, last longer, and maintenance is like a trip to have the oil changed in your car-- in and out in a few hours… diesels can be retro-fitted with new technology, to enable the engine to be monitored carefully, just as the newest locos are… i know there has to be a good reason for keeping stem locos active, i just cant figure out a single one… comment?
Most of the countries which still have large amounts of steam power also have a large low educated (see cheap) workforce available for the grunt maintenance. They may also have issues locating the number of properly trained mechanics and electricians to work on a diesel/electric loco.
What’s kept steam alive in many of what we’d call underdeveloped countries is its relative simplicity. If you’ve got something to burn in a firebox, coal, wood, bagasse, or whatever you can boil water and make power. The parts can be made by a moderately skilled machinist or sometimes even a blacksmith. Go diesel-electric and things get a bit more complicated, you need skilled diesel mechanics and skilled electricians to keep the things alive, no matter how reliable they are to begin with.
I remember reading the Chinese decision to go diesel and electric caused a bit of a flap between those who run the Chinese rail system and those who RUN the Chinese rail system. The men who get the trains over the road weren’t too crazy about modernizing too quickly. “Why tie ourselves to an energy source we don’t have much control over, like oil, when we’ve got plenty of coal? Sure steam’s labor intensive but we’ve got PLENTY of labor!” Who was right and who was wrong? Time will tell.
Instead of a partial list of those that “gave up” steam, how about a list of those that still use steam in REGULAR REVENUE SERVICE? that would likely be a very short list, even China has given up on steam. I get the impression that you believe steam to be in much greater use around the world than it really is.
True. In China there are still a number of Industrial operations running steam but that probably has a lot to do with the previously mentioned cheap labor and cheap coal…
I have a 2000 issue of “Jane’s World Railways”, and that issue shows that once you get past China, more specifically Manchuria, there are only scattered small pockets of steam operation here and there.
there is some intelligent discussion going on here, and some not-so… one guy asks if this is a joke, ha-ha! another challenges me on why i listed countries with steam instead of those without… well EXCUSE ME!! i didnt know there was a policy regarding how posts are to be written… maybe someone should send me the website for composing messages to TRAINS FORUM… man, how creepy can you get?? slamming someone because you dont like the way they write!! i guess “freedom of speech” means you are free to write what you please, as long as it pleases me, first!! jeez louise!!
Don’t take it personaly.[;)] You have to remember this forum is frequented by the whole spectrum of age and intelegence from absolute troll (rare) to the very intelegent. Some of us are railroad employees but to most of us this is an avocation (hobby). And this hobby has many facets to it. And don’t forget it’s hard to convey emotion with a few words. What might seem like a harsh statement to you may have been meant as a light harted joust.
If someones posts bother you just ignore them. Most of the regulars know who the troublemakes are and who the sincere ones are and read accordingly.[8D]
BTW- there are some taboo subjects to avoid here. Besides the standard no politics, religion, ect… there is grafitti(sp), grade crossing incidents and pretty much anything to do with the Milwakee’s retrenchment from the west coast [(-D]
WOW, RELAX and chill. My comment about listing the the countries that still use steam was because you seem to think that other than about Five countries, the rest of the world still uses steam locomotives. Other than small widely scattered examples, there probably aren’t Five countries that still use steam locomotives as their primary rail power.
My point was to try to figure out just where you thought the rest of the world was still using steam locomotives. No slam was meant but this reply makes me tend to think that you are in your early teens.
I am sure that the other post about “is this a Joke?” was for the same reason, The “rest of the World” just is not running steam as their primary rail power. The Brtish have built a NEW steam locomotive from the ground up, but it was a Hand Crafted, One Off example.
As far as “Creepy” goes, compare my comment to your response to it, then ask which was Creepier.
Diesel locomotives will soon be a quaint artifact of the past. They will be replaced by modern, carbon neutral steam locomotives that burn biomass pellets manufactured by the torrification process. This new generation of modern steam will outperform diesels in train acceleration, be cheaper to operate and maintain, and be free of harmful emissions. This will be the new worldwide standard in railroad motive power:
By that do you mean that the concept’s promoters will spend immense amount of time designing and redesigning the equipment and by the time they settle on what the demonstrator should be all the potential customers will have lost interest?
Notice that they have focused on the smallest and least important market in North American rail, passenger operations. The locomotive have chosen is suitable only as a proof of concept only.
Does North Korea still use steam? Rarely does one see any pictures of rails transportation from there, but I did see a news clip within the last few years when relationships were getting better that showed a glimpse of a 2-8-2 switching. It was only a moment, but the lines of a Chinese 2-8-2 was unmistakable. Given their chronic shortages of everything, can’t see them burning imported oil when they have coal reserves. Anyone know what they are using for motive power?
In the second decade of the 3rd millennium, I believe the iron horse has permanently been put out-to-pasture for revenue service.
It’s rumored there’s quite a bit of steam operating in North Korea, but rumors are all we have to go on. The North Korean government is quite secretive, not big news, and they only show outsiders what they want them to see. We won’t know just what goes on there until the Communist tyranny collapses, and it will, sooner or later.
Well, I have read in this very thread, that other than the United States, Canada, Scandinavia, Holland and Switzerland, the REST OF THE WORLD is STILL using Steam Locomotives. Steam Locomotives in Regular Heavy Haul Revenue service, shouldn’t be that hard to find, should they?
“mr midget wants to know if this is a joke… why? are you looking for a humor forum?”
OK . You come on this forum and flatly state that only 5 countries have dieselized and ask why the rest of the world is running steam. Withe the exception of North Korea, which is debatebly not part of the world at all, some remote Chinese operation some Cuban cane haulers, and a few isolated eastern European short lines, there IS NO steam.