Thing is that you’d want to save the steam plant as a historical exhibit of sorts, and at the same time provide modern thruster pods a la QM2 in lieu of alternative power to the four shafts, which would require little opening of the hull for their reinforcement. The ‘kicker’ is getting the replacement engines, basically large gensets, into the ship … but 25% of the hull? That’s full replacement, the thing that killed the SS France/Norway, and not needed here.
Not the usual amenities and space on a modern cruise ship, either, which I suspect is one of the real ‘secret reasons’ this hasn’t proceeded: the major thing, I think, might have been the issue of the Jones Act and a Hong Kong company taking over perhaps the most famous and iconic modern United States liner.
Q?- Why must it be converted to something other than the original steam…I’m sure technology could reduce emissions substantially or it can get a historical waiver of sorts.
So sorry and sad to see it like this. Hollywood, Mark Cuban, EHH, someone should step up and form a consortium.
They still have this!
On June 23, 2012 the SS Keewatin, the last of the CPR Ships built in 1907, was returned to Port McNicoll where it had worked from 1912 until 1967. Keewatin is the last Edwardian steamship left in the world.
The only reason for pulling the steam engines out of the United States would be for adapting it to cruising, as opposed to it’s original purpose of trans-Atlantic crossings.
According to what I’ve read, diesel engines are more efficient for the “stop-and-go” sailing that purpose-built cruise ships are intended for. For a trans-Atlantic crossing, or any major ocean crossing where the ship is brought up to it’s sailing speed and kept there for however many days the crossing takes, steam is more efficient. Anyway, there’s nothing wrong with the hull design and no reason to alter it. OK, maybe bow and stern thrusters for ease of docking, but nothing else is needed.
At any rate, look at all the features and amenities that modern cruising ships have to offer and by comparison something like the United States is totally outdated, it’d probably be cheaper to build a whole new ship than convert the United States to be able to compete with them. Damn it.
There’s one advantage the old girl has over the new cruisers, those new ships are UGLY! At least to a traditionalist like myself. The things look like garish, overdecorated floating shoeboxes! Probably wouldn’t last thirty seconds on the North Atlantic in winter, not like the old timers. The United States LOOKS like an ocean liner, even in it’s state of decrepitude.
Emissions are likely not the elephant-in-the-room problem. That is a sophisticated and VERY large steam plant, using an enormous amount of very proprietary technology that hasn’t been marketed or made in many decades. (While not an entirely fair analogy, think how many, say, ATSF 3463s represent that potential 212K shp…) Very little of this would be of positive interest to the ship’s presumptive clientele; I doubt boat nerds would account for more than a small percentage of desired repeat business. Even with no ‘adaptive reuse’ of some proportion of the machinery spaces for cruise related purposes (casino, perhaps?) why renovate extensive obsolete machinery to make the ship go fast if your business model explicitly says otherwise?
On the other hand, I do suspect that emissions from boilers of this kind will be relatively immense and require all sorts of expensive abatement and special controls – still more money thrown down a hole no one gets revenue from filling. And all this before you start thinking about maneuverability of a ship this size with four fixed wheels in a world of substantially fewer tugs, and more cost to arrange for them…
Thanks for the prompt reply. The SS United States as a casino is a nightmare scenario…better it where a Trump Hotel! Make it into a mobile White House ala Air Force One…endless Federal Funds available!
…and you can legitimately and proudly keep the name.
I guess I grew up at the end of the great age of Industrial Arts - of the Industrial Revolution. An age of steam passenger trains - the finest in the world! An age of the great steam passenger liners also finest in the world.
Yes I can remember them docked in New York side by side - RMS Queen Mary - RMS Queen Elizabeth - SS United States - SS Ille De France - SS America and SS France.
They were the trans Atlantic liners for those passengers who just could not comprehend the fragility of the piston engine - the “Lockheed Constellation” and flying the Atlantic! In an age when too many air disasters happened and also near in memory were the World War II “Flying Fortress” and “Superfortress” which were just not the kind of thing your could travel in.
Yes this was an age when the Pan Am flying boat was of quite recent memory and the only suitable venue for the truely hardy traveler. Because you could always set them down in mid ocean as boats.
Yes the trans Atlantic passenger steam ship trade was well established also - with regular sailings weekly and a time when one committed themselves to pampered care and at least three full days at sea - and away from the work day world.
Weather forcasting was in its infancy without satellite and reliable prediction and the chances of a rough weather North Atlantic crossing in winter were always to be expected. An age of radio communication when television was a small black white tube broadcast liv
The potential for what? Preserving steam locomotives in operational condition eats a lot of money, who has the millions (billions?) required to restore a sizable liner to seaworthiness and to what end?
Ah, yes, the day of many transatlantic sailings–listed in the Guide!
Oh, yes–Oliver Wendell Holmes wrote, “Aye, tear her tattered ensign down…” I went on board her once, in 1979, and had to stoop when on the gun deck. Men were shorter when she was built.
Isn’t the Constellation also preserved, in Baltimore?
Because those ships had illustrious careers and actually shaped history and the SS United States did neither. Also, because those were USN ships and the United States wasn’t. So why should the navy save something that doesn’t belong to it? Plus, other than the Constitution, those ships aren’t preserved by the government, but by private foundations.
Constellation is preserved indeed in Baltimore Johnny, we’ve been aboard her, Lady Firestorm and I (Lady F’s grandfather was a Newfoundland fishing skipper so she’s got salt water in her veins!) and she’s impressive, to say the least.
This Constellation isn’t the original from the War of 1812 era though, she’s the second one, was built in the 1850’s, and is the last surviving US Navy ship from the Civil War era. A great one to visit. Get down in the hold, and she smells old. Not a bad old smell either, more like a “grandpa’s basement” old smell. Really pulls you into the past!
And Backshop, here’s something a lot of people don’t realize. Those preserved Iowa class battleships and others like the North Carolina, the Massachusetts, and the Texas are still Navy Department property, they’re on loan, so to speak, to the various battleship memorial societies around the country, and they’d better take care of them to the best of their abilities, or else! I recall reading the state of Texas got a nasty-gram from the Navy several years back when the Texas wasn’t being kept up as it should have been and was going to seed, so to speak. “Take care of that ship, or we’re taking it back!” was the gist of the message. It had the desired effect.
On a related note…I got married in LA and we spent our wedding night on the Queen Mary. We like doing “different” things than other people. We’ve been on 3 cruises and haven’t been to the Caribbean (and don’t want to). Our first was Alaska, then the Baltic and the last was Norway. Our next will be Australia and New Zealand in January.
Although this off topic. The ss France was saved from the torch once when she laid up the final time by the French line. Purchased by the Norwegian cruise line, she was repurposed for Caribbean cruising. boilers where removed to reduce operating expenses. Modern suites were add but some classes of cabins from her France era remained. She was a fun ship to sail on. She had a huge advantage over the Cunard’s queens as she was air conditioned . Lack of ac kept the queens on the unprofitable north Atlantic runs.
The Norway cruised on until an unfortunate deadly boiler explosion forced a lay up she never returned from.
And there lies the impetus for saving this Titanic sized ship: it’s grace. These modern mega-ships have no class at all. They remind me of the description of the ships of the Vogon constructor fleet in the Hitch-hiker’s guide. Giant office blocks. They leave me cold no matter what they look like inside or how many theaters and buffets they have. The QM2 is about the best looking simply because they used the traditional black-red-orange paint of Cunard rather than the all bland, all white of so many cruisers. [2c]
I agree with you there that steam emissions isn’t a prime factor. I would guess that the real issue is insurance. Think of how tough the excursion universe got after Gettysburg. A boiler explosion (a very, very low probability) on a mainline RR excursion probably wouldn’t kill passengers. Mame, injure, inconvenience, yes. But death would likelty only come to the head end crew. A boiler explosion at sea however is something the insurance companies wouldn’t even want to cover. The liability is the killer in my view.
Penny- Thanks for the video. Very emotional and terrific story.
Port McNicoll has suffered badly. It really went downhill. The Great Lake steamers stopped, the trains stopped, the grain elevators were shut down. It had such a rich and vibrant past.
The return of the Keewatin is truly inspiring and best of luck to them and their new direction in developing a retirement and recreational destitnation.
